Poll shows Prop. 8 is Up. But MSM ignores the story.
Posted by: Craig DeLuz | 10/07/2008 12:23 PM
According to the most recent poll by Survey USA, Proposition 8 is leading amongst likely voters 47% in favor to 42% against. But for some reason, most of the mainstream media doesn't think it is newsworthy. There was nothing on these new poll results in any of the states major print newspapers.
Well thank God for alternative media!
Here is the story according to Survey USA:
California Proposition 8 Too Close To Call: In a vote today, 10/06/08, on California's Proposition 8 Ballot Initiative, which would change California's constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry, approximately half the state supports the measure, half the state opposes the measure, according to this latest SurveyUSA poll conducted for KABC-TV Los Angeles, KPIX-TV San Francisco, KGTV-TV San Diego, and KFSN-TV Fresno. The exact findings are: 'Yes' (to change the law) 47%, 'No' (to leave the law alone) 42%.
But polling on ballot measures in general is an inexact science, and polling on homosexuality in general is a tricky business. So, not too much should be made of the 5 points that separates 'Yes' and 'No' today. Support for 8 may be higher or lower than any opinion pollster is able to measure. In a SurveyUSA poll released eleven days ago, 5 points again separated "Yes" from "No," but in the other direction, with the "No" vote coming out nominally ahead.
What is clear today: Those in the Inland Empire and the Central Valley continue to want the law changed. Those in the Bay Area continue to want the law left alone. Those in greater LA remain split. The youngest voters, who are the hardest to poll and who are the most unpredictable voters, support the measure, after opposing it eleven days ago. Seniors support the measure. Minority groups view the measure differently: blacks support, Hispanics split, Asians and others oppose. Support is strong among conservatives, Republicans, and those who attend religious services regularly. Opposition is strong among liberals, Democrats, and those who never attend religious services.
One local TV station did run a story on the poll. Click Here to view their story.
But think, those undocumented students who benefit now will become future tax-payers that can pay back to the...
I can help, I was married to a gay rights activist for 15 years
while he was posing as a straight person.
Contact the American Psychological Association and have them
re-evaluate their 1979 decision that homosexual behavior is normal.
This is the root of the problem. This is a disease which is
out of control, it has overtaken humanity and will cause our
demise.
The reason the younger population is voting against prop 8 is
they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by the daycare system
which is tightly controlled by and advocates gay values. The gay
movement has put enormous effort and money into policies which have created the present system where every young child is placed in daycare. Daycare now creates their values not their parents. Next the gay movement will develop adoption policies to take control of the future generations.
I'd like to respectfully respond to Gayle's comment above:
Gayle, I really think that you should see a therapist to discuss your relationship with your ex-husband, because I think that a lot of feelings about that are causing you to lash out at the "gay movement."
Second, maybe once you meet with a therapist, you will see how much education and research they rely upon to make decisions such as the 1979 ruling that homosexual behavior is normal. Or, maybe you can just find some way to quantify your claims to the contrary.
Third, how is homosexuality causing our demise? In case you haven't noticed, population growth has not exactly been slowing of late. I'd just like to know specifically what it is about homosexuality that "has overtaken humanity and will cause our demise."
Fourth, I am extremely confused by your reference to the brainwashing and indoctrination by the daycare system. Firstly, "every young child is placed in daycare." I know I wasn't, nor were my children, nor are the majority of children even. And even if they were, how is this even remotely related to gays? Are you saying that all daycare providers are gay? And what "policies" has the "gay movement put enormous effort and money" into so that all children are forced into daycare?
Gayle, to conclude, it's not your opposition to Proposition 8 that I take issue with. It's the completely nonexistent reasoning you use to defend your opposition. Seriously, meet with a therapist to work through your relationship issues and then try to provide even a small amount of evidence to support your claims.
Writing discrimination into the California consitution is the most Un Christian thing to do!...
Where's the love?
Vote No On Prop 8!
Please vote YES on proposition 8. Defend marriage, freedom of religion, and protect our children from learning about the evils of homosexuality at such a young age.
VOTE YES ON PROP 8!!!!!!!!!!!
Amanda, whose children are we protecting? Many gay families, or families with gay children, would find your statement small-minded and offensive, as I do.
As for marriage, how do two people who love each other getting married affect yours? Homosexual marriage does not null and void heterosexual marriage; if anything, I think it enforces the sanctity of the act. There is nothing hurtful or hateful about two consenting adults loving each other.
If Jesus - as he was in Jerusalem - were here today, I think he would reprimand those who condemn equality for everyone. Whose right is it to take away the rights of others?
Also!
NO ON 8.
Protect our civil rights. Vote NO on proposition 8.
Vote YES on Prop 8. Traditional marriage has worked in every society while gay marriage has not. Nature itself supports traditional marriage so why change that. This isn't a matter of intolerance because domestic partners already have every right in the State of California. We can be tolerant and love everybody without destroying marriage and the family. Vote YES on Prop 8.
Vote YES on Prop 8. Traditional marriage has worked in every society while gay marriage has not. Nature itself supports traditional marriage so why change that. This isn't a matter of intolerance because domestic partners already have every right in the State of California. We can be tolerant and love everybody without destroying marriage and the family. Vote YES on Prop 8.
Can someone explain to me how allowing people to marry the person they love is "destroying marriage and the family?"
I married my longtime love last month. We have four beautiful children, who celebrated with us that our relationship, and by extension, our family is now legally recognized.
So again, how did MY marriage "destroy marriage and the family?" And how, specifically, has "gay marriage" NOT worked?
As for domestic partnership providing all the same rights... this is simply not true. We were in the process of selling our house (which was in my partner's name) around the time of our wedding. And days after our wedding, I received in the mail a document from the State requiring my notarized signature, granting my permission for my husband to sell our house. You see, though we had a domestic partnership before, the house was not legally considered OURS. Once we were married, it was. I was clearly not protected by the State on this issue until we legally married. And according to legal experts, there are many other details that are left out of domestic partnerships that are included in marriage.
But it goes well beyond the protections. Why should my husband and I be labeled second-class citizens, simply because one of us isn't female? Why should our relationship be any less recognized? And honestly, if domestic partnerships are so great, why don't we see heterosexuals lined up for them instead of marriage??
Additionally, those seeking to annihilate the granted rights of gays and lesbians in this state (and across the country) need to be VERY careful. Never before the rise of anti-gay constitutional amendments has there been discrimination written INTO state constitutions. But with every one that passes, a precedent is being set for MORE discrimination to be written, outside of this issue. And at SOME point, everyone finds themselves in the minority on an issue. So choosing to legislate discrimination is only setting one's self up for future discrimination against themselves.
Case in point: It is VERY possible that if Proposition 8 passes, removing the existing rights of gays and lesbians to marry, the California Supreme Court would be entitled to respond by stripping the rights of ALL Californians to marry and establish civil unions across the board, leaving marriage only to religious institutions.
So keep pushing... you may very well find out first hand how it feels NOT be able to marry the person you love.
Of course, the Survey USA Poll shows most of the uptick in support as if it comes from young people. That is, quite simply, not easy to believe. It is more reasonable to think that the sorts of young people who still answer a landline (who would be included in such a survey) are from poor and rural places like Sacramento. Proposition 8 is not leading. If anything, this was a ploy to get more people to donate money for the campaign AGAINST bigotry. I just can't believe that Californians will vote to write ignorance into the state constitution. In fact, I do not believe it.
It is not suprising that the young people want to support prop. 8. We all grow upset and realize the wrong in someone being beat-up or abused because of their sexual preference. What someone does in their bedroom is their business. We also realize that children don't need to be exposed to gay activism. Parents protect their children. Good parents protect their children. Discussing gay relationships should be handled by the parents, not society, not not school districts. The young voters are saying, "Hey, wait a minute, you want to "force" gay issues on children"? Now you are crossing a line. Don't try to force your lifestyle on the rest of society. The Prop. 8 is to allow Californians a voice. They will say "yes" or "no" to gay marriage. I personally did not appreciate a gay activist group's attempts to have the courts remove it from the ballot even after it had the necessary signitures. That was sneeky. The gay community wants to be heard. The straight community wants to be heard too. We don't like be intimated and threated because of our beliefs. Passing Prop. 8 doesn't take away of the rights of gays. All of the rights obtained through CA domestic partnership laws will not be changed. I hope people stop feeling intimated by the no on prop. and vote Y E S..Be heard, protect our children, protect our voice.
Dear Friends,
To clarify some of the information provided earlier, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, a local “school – sponsored trip to a gay wedding.” The school’s principal thought it was “perfectly appropriate” for 1st graders to attend a same-sex wedding, the children were 5 and 6 years old, and it was officiated by San Francisco Mayor, Gavin Newsom, of “the door’s wide open now. It’s gonna happen whether you like it or not” fame. The school also stated that “it couldn’t recall” if it had ever sponsored a trip to a traditional marriage. The lesbian teacher thought of her marriage as a “teachable moment.” My children, your children, your friend’s children, your enemy’s children, do not need to be forced to learn about homosexuality from the state, from society, and/or from our schools. That discussion belongs within the family. The family should be the only ones who decide how and when the subject should be discussed. Don’t be apathetic on this issue. Don't allow others to tell and/or suggest to you that gay marriage won’t have huge effects on our society. Did you realize that a gay activist group tried to have Prop. 8 removed from the ballot? They wanted OUR VOICES TO BE SILENCED. They went to a court in northern CA shortly after they won the right to marry and argued that Prop. 8 should be removed from the ballot because the CA Supreme Court had already decided the issue. That is after 1.1 million Californians had signed a petition saying WE wanted to vote on the issue. The gay activist groups that spout “equality” and “all voices MUST be heard,” were very sneaky and tried to silence everyone in California. Did you know about the case on Oct. 12, 2008, wherein a Modesto man was “brutally assaulted” just because he wanted to hand out “Yes on 8” signs to his fellow church members. Apparently, a gay activist “yelled at him, punched him in the eye, and stole his signs.” Once again, not too much tolerance was given to this peaceful man and his voice. I don’t know if you have noticed, but I HAVE noticed that a day or two after a “YES on 8” sign has been stuck in the ground, it somehow disappears. Suspicious, don’t you agree? Is someone trying to silence another opinion, someone’s voice? Did you know about the gay activist groups’ call to boycott a hotel owner and his hotels because he donated to the ‘YES on 8” campaign due to his religious beliefs? I haven’t heard of any similar calls for boycotting business and/or public individuals because they have chosen to donate to the gay marriage side. Another incident involved a couple of wedding photographers in New Mexico, who respectively declined to photograph a gay wedding due to religious reasons and were sued. The photographers were ordered to pay the gay couple over $6000 because of discrimination. Hopefully, the case will be appealed and overturned. These are just a few of the incidents that have made me AWARE that gay activist groups DO NOT believe “all voices must be heard.” I don’t like someone trying to intimidate me. I don’t like someone trying to intimidate you. All of the incidences I wrote about are true and correct. Voting YES on Prop 8, doesn’t take away any of the rights granted to gay couples in CA. The Domestic Partnership laws are in place, voting to protect traditional one man one woman marriage does not take away any of the domestic partner rights. VOTE YES ON 8. Let OUR voices be heard!
Cynthia, I couldn't have said it better!
YES ON PROP 8!
VOTE NO ON PROP 8, that's what Jesus would do. Gays, Lesbians, and Bis are people. Some are cool, some are jerks. Some make good parents, some do not. Some are cat people, some are dog people. Some are athletes, artists, politicians, doctors, educators, spiritual leaders, homeless, city workers, addicts, recovering addicts, ceos, etc. They are your children, your siblings, your parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces, nephews, grandparents, friends, coworkers, neighbors, bosses, employees etc. They are of every ethnic background, religious background, class background, etc. We are raised by people who have most often been straight, but somehow our parent's sexuality didn't rub off on us, why is that? Probably because that isn't how sexuality works, yer born gay or you're not. A hostile, and dangerous environment for gays doesn't make for fewer people realizing that they're gay, it just means that it takes longer for us to come to terms with it. Passing prop 8 wouldn't stop gay people from being gay, it wouldn't stop them from being parents, or even being in relationships. What it WOULD do is prevent our relationships from having the support and legal rights that heteros enjoy, and tell me if you are so concerned about our children then why would you deny their parents and these kids the protection that marriage offers? If you care about doing what's right, try not spending millions of dollars to deny rights to a particular population, and put that money to something that will actually do some good, like education, feeding the hungry, or ending the genocide in Darfur. What I find so disturbing is how obsessed some straight people are with what gays do in bed. I mean the first thing you think about when you meet one of us, is to picture us in a sexual act, how immature is that? The reality is, is that lesbians have the least sex (though we do seem to cuddle more) of any of the groups, probably it seems, even less than the priests, yeah gay men seem to have more, but that's not because they're gay, but because they're men. The only reason straight people aren't going at it more isn't because the guy wants less sex, it's because she does. It seems to me that if you can't get most people to agree with you to ban same-sex marriage without telling lies about the prop, then you know damn well, that you're wrong. You may say that your religion dictates that you try to ban same-sex marriages, but MY religion says that not only should it be allowed, but that it is good when two loving and consenting adults agree under the eyes of god and their family to bring glory to god via their beautiful and glorious love. It is arrogant to think that gays are not the will of god, or that the will of god can even be thwarted, by mortal or immortal beings. Separate means unequal, VOTE NO ON PROP 8. Plus if you're at all worried about the economy think about the fact that the state will lose approximately 46 million dollars over three years, in revenue associated with same-sex marriages, such as licenses, and related services. A vote for prop 8, is a vote for HATE.
Dear No on 8,
You sound so angry. Jesus wanted us to love our neighbor as ourselves. No one "hates" gays. The "YES on 8" position isn't about stripping gays of any of their rights. This issue, YES on 8, is about RESTORING was has been traditionally known as "marriage," namely one man and one woman. According to many studies, the BEST situation for a child is to be in a loving and stable home with their father and mother. Children learn different things from a mother and different things from a father. To be truely complete, children need to learn from BOTH. Two mother's and/or two father's CAN'T give the child what they truely need. Again, I am most concerned with the children. Some families have problems and are broken. Why should we give up? Why isn't the goal to help these broken families? The CA judges decision for gay marriage was 4 to 3. Ultimately, it was ONE person's opinion and/or interpretation of the Constitution that led to the change in the law. I would neither call that resounding support for the change, nor would I call it resonable for the rest of society to be unquestioning of it's validity. I disagee with the four judges and agree the THREE dissenting judges. Marriage is an historical institution and has value in society. Whether or not a person is religious, it has always been recognized that marriage is between a man and a woman. No one is taking away ANY rights from the gay community by supporting YES on 8, the gay community ALREADY has equality through the law CA. As a matter of fact, last year, CA allowed Registered Domestic Partners to file a Joint tax return. Just like a married couple! This WILL NOT CHANGE. For your further information, heterosexual couples have to be 62 or older to qualify. Gay RDP actually have MORE rights than heterosexual couples. VOTE YES ON 8!!!!!!!!!
Debbie, are you sure you're looking at the same Proposition 8 as me? Because mine is titled: "Proposition 8: Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry."
YES on 8 is NOT about restoring the sanctity of marriage, because up until 1977 when the California Constitution was amended, same-sex marriage was legal!
It was only in 1977 that gender-specific wording was added to the Constitution; prior to that the Marriage Act was gender neutral. Same-sex marriages were legal up until 1977.
Homosexuals lost their right to marry in 1977, had that right restored to them in 2005, and now you want to take it away from them, again.
Just 50 years ago my wife and I wouldn't have been allowed to be married, because we're an inter-racial couple. 50 years ago when that was ruled unconstitutional, it was not a popular decision with the people, but we can look back now and say it WAS the right thing to do.
Maybe some time in the future after this hateful and discriminating proposition is defeated, we can all look back at these days and say, Yes, this was not a popular decision, but it was the right thing to do, because DISCRIMINATION IS NEVER OKAY!
PROPOSITION 8: ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY
That's Discrimination, and that's why I'm voting NO on Prop 8.
Hello Everyone,
to those who are saying that this law will teach children about same sex marriage, please look below. It is a copy of the proposition exactly as it will appear on the ballot:
ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME–SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.
Changes the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California.
Provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.
from what I can see in that statement, nowhere does it say anything about teaching children about same sex marriage. I am 27 years old, it's been a little while since I was in grade school or jr high or high school. But I know that some things haven't changed too much. The only time marriage or rather relationships are discussed is during sex ed. And even then, it's not about the functions of marriage, the roles the man and the woman play, they talk about the emotional aspect of it, and what constitutes a healthy relationship. One thing so many people seem to forget, is that these classes are not mandatory, that in order for a child to attend this class, they have to have their parents sign a persmission slip allowing them to attend that class, and usually on that paper the parents sign, it gives a brief overview of the class. I completely agree that as parents, you should have the right to decide when and where and what your child learns. What the teacher in San Francisco did is horrible. She and the principle should be punished, there is no excuse for exposing a child to certain things without their parents permission. If each parent felt it was okay and time for their little one to witness and learn from that then fine, but what those two did was take that choice away from the parents. Choices should never be taken away from people by other people. if you vote yes on 8 you are taken a very private choice away from a lot of people. And that is not something that is right or fair or just. Please, read what the actual proposition is, then vote. If you feel you have to vote yes because marriage is a term only to be used to describe a man and woman in love, then so be it, but don't vote yes on 8 because you think children will start being taught about same sex marriage. I am voting no on 8, because I feel that people should still be able to choose the direction their lives take.
All,
I read the part about "Homosexuals lost their right to marry in 1977" and I have to say... No they did not! There were no gay marriages registered in CA until 2008. I have to agree with Debbie on the fact that gay supporters are using the same tactics that non-gay people used to use to keep gays in the “Closet”. Intimidation by retaliation; stealing Yes on 8 signs; egging cars with Yes on 8 bumper stickers; beating up people for passing out signs…is deplorable.
When I was in college in the 90’s the Clinton Administration had just issued the “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” Policy. My English lit teacher, knowing an older gentleman had been in the military in Korea, asked him what he thought of gays in the military. He said he did not agree with it. From across the room, a young girl said, just loud enough for the man to hear it, “Homophobe”. The man was mortified. As he started to express his views on the subject, that it started with religion, but also the closeness of some military situations, and how in a time of war, you don’t just get to go home at the end of an 8 hour shift. She persisted using the argument that he was afraid of homosexuals. Having been a veteran of the Marines, I asked her if she had been in the military. She said No. Then I suggested that she join in order to better understand that you lose all your rights when you sign on the line and become a Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman. Since this discussion is not about that topic, I will continue…
With that said, I tried to talk to the older gent after class. He would not talk to me about it. He was now the intimidated person. This was a veteran of a War that protected the right to speak up, and yet he was silenced because of his views. Whether you agree or disagree with the Policy, people should be allowed to agree to disagree. When a person accepts a situation because they “don’t want to make waves” or because they are labeled and afraid of retribution, then it is time to call it socialism.
I applaud all of you for speaking your mind on this site. It shows that you are open to speak up, even if it is somewhat anonymous. For me…I will be voting YES on 8.
Why, you may ask, because I and at least 6.3 million other Californian voices were silenced from our vote in 2000.
Because until 1977, marriage was never questioned as anything different than one man and one woman.
Because people like Jerry Brown who changed the wording from “Restoring Marriage to one man and one woman” on the ballot again silencing the 1.1 million signatures and the INTENT of the people.
Because the judges agreed that Jerry Brown was WRONG for his actions, but that it was too late to change the ballots because they would not be able to be reprinted in time.
Because this was the vote of one judge that turned the tide (4-3 vote), knowing that the election was only 8 months away.
I am doing it for my children and what I want for them.
I am doing it because it is what I believe to be the right thing to do.
I am doing it because it is MY RIGHT to vote the way I want to and not the way someone tells me.
I do it because after the initiative was acknowledged, legal acts were initiated to stop this vote.
Because I don’t like the media publicizing all about the marriages going on all over CA, and forgetting to mention this point about the legal action to have the initiative scrubbed from the Nov election.
Because I don’t like being told what is right by a group that feels that if you don’t agree with them, then you are against them.
I am doing this because I believe that the right for gay marriage was given incorrectly and it needs to be rectified.
So remember to vote Yes on 8 in 2008.
By the way...I forgot to mention, my sister is gay and I have no problems with this fact. She knows my views.
Dear John P and fellow readers,
You do realize that you said that you and your "wife" were able to get married? Right? Do you really feel the civil rights movement experienced by the black community is the same as the gay marriage movement? I don't. There was a black woman Professor who wrote a paper saying she didn't agree with the association of the two movements, and guess what? She was SILENCED and then let go by the college. She wasn’t allowed to have and/or express her opinion.
Have you read any of the information on Registered Domestic Partnerships in CA? They actually already have MORE rights than heterosexual couples in CA. I haven't noticed any gay activist groups going to court to say that this fact was "unfair."
NO ONE here is speaking of taking away ANY rights that the gay community has achieved though the Domestic Partnership laws in CA. What is wanted by those who vote YES ON 8 is the RESTORATION of the traditional definition of marriage, namely, between ONE man and ONE woman. I happen to have my CA General Election booklet, Official Voter Information Guide, issued by the state of CA in front of me. On page 128, the booklet says that Proposition 8 "shall be known and cited as 'the California Marriage Protection Act." As Jim mentioned above, the Attorney General of CA, Jerry Brown, took it upon himself to CHANGE the wording to "Proposition 8 - Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry." He could have, and perhaps should have, added that it also eliminates the right for polygamous marriage, incestuous marriage, etc. You get the idea. He decided for you and me. He hopes our voices for YES ON 8 will be SILENCED.
Well I am hear to tell you that I don't appreciate MANIPULATION tactics, INTIMIDATION tactics, FEAR tactics, and/or THREATS. I have only ONE VOICE. My VOICE has to stand for what is right and true. I am very happy that this measure is on our ballot, much to the dismay of the gay activist groups that tried to have it removed. My VOICE, your VOICE, OUR VOICES WILL NOT SILENCED. VOTE YES ON 8. Let our VOICES be heard. YES ON 8!!!!!
I think this is an moral guideline issue.
If we pass the law for same sex marriage right now, what would happens next? Are we going to move to animal and human marriage?
I think it is good opportunity to difine marriage this time.
Once we cross the line, there is no going back.
So, please thinkabout that.
I will vote yes on prop 8.
HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE AND NATURAL LAW THEORY
The government should not sanction “gay” marriage, it is against Natural Law and the philosophy of American governance. It goes against what has made western society successful. It goes against the wisdom of the ages, and against objective reasoning.
The system of governance in America is based on Natural Law Theory. Laws being defined as a system of governance based on the natural condition of man and nature. Rules are directives pushed into law that do not represent the natural condition of humans, and are used to manipulate humans. With natural law there is common ground on all issues, that common ground being reality, which is obvious and self-evident; that 2 plus 2 is 4. That the real is real, and the unreal is the unreal.
Humans with homosexual feelings have the same rights as anyone else to marry. And there is a set of guidelines based on common sense and respect for nature and its laws. The guidelines are self evident to a healthy reasoning mind; that the other party be another human being, not oneself or an animal, be of the opposite sex, over a certain age, not a direct relative, no more than one spouse at a time, immigration status, health, etc.
Under Natural Law Theory, which should be self evident to any rational and clear minded person, marriage is for creating a stable environment for raising children. And any sanctioning of it by the government should have very clear natural guidelines. People are free to get married in homosexual friendly churches without government sanctioning, but any marriage that doesn’t follow natural law should never be sanctioned by the government. The government is supposed to represent us in a fair minded rational manner, not cater to pressure groups wanting special rules for them.
Feelings have driven this issue through the ages, but laws should be made based on nature, not feelings. Laws should support the rational actions required to live in the natural would. What the homosexual community is asking for is way beyond tolerance and has now become a demand for acceptance of a lifestyle that goes against nature. They are asking to be allowed to change the definition of marriage away from the common sense, rational, natural law meaning of it, that is the forcing of rules on society, not laws, and that is tyranny by any definition.
Just ask yourself, what is next, once we do not use rationality to guide us, but feelings and irrationality.
Frank Sabatino
All I can tell you is my yes on 8 vote means one thing and one thing only...that I (that's right I) believe that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman.....
It does not mean I am against gays; it does not mean any of the myriad of other tangents the no side is trying to spin....it just means that I believe marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman...that is all.
Protect marriage in 2008...vote Yes on 8
Frank,
I like the idea of appealing to Natural Law, but then you riddle your comments with unnatural logic. For example, this statement is pure presumption: "Humans with homosexual feelings have the same rights as anyone else to marry." There is nothing in Natural Law that states this.
That is opinion only. Obviously many others have a different opinion. However, I think it an excellent idea to appeal to logic and principles that are above the influence of media hype and personal emotional whims.
Jesus once taught on the subject of divorce. He presented truth and presented various points that find their base in God's design. To state it briefly, "at the beginning the Creator made them male and female ... and the two shall become one flesh... Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." (See the gospels of Matthew 19:1-9, and Mark 10:1-12)
There are many obvious principles spoken of here and it is wise to look at the passage in its context and thoughtfully to see what the Savior Himself said.
Divorce is not God's original intention for the married couple, a man and a woman. The language of Jesus speaks of a design that springs from the intention of God in His creation. ONLY a man and a woman can become "one flesh." This is a union, which is part of grand design for the human race. This is the kind of union that is "joined together by God." No other union is even hinted at.
Therefore, this is the natural law that we should appeal to -- the Highest Law, that supersedes the momentary confusion that society makes for itself.
With respect to every other civil right, California law already recognizes civil unions. Homosexual couples have every right everyone else does. That is a fact. To change the definition of marriage is to give them a right that heterosexual couples don’t have. I could not grant this right even if I wanted to. It would be against nature. It would be against Natural Law.
To change the definition of marriage would be against the words of the Savior whose supreme sacrifice was for the sins all who accept his forgiveness. We don't need to try change the basic meaning of words; we need Truth.
What we really need is Jesus.
I'm voting YES on 8 because I believe as a woman that I have certain unique qualities and that men have their own unique qualities. Same sex marriage deliberately takes away those specific qualities from the children in these families. Same sex marriage says to me that the sexes are interchangeable and that gender does not matter.
This is ludicricous because the two best fathers and the two best mothers cannot equal what a father and mother unitedly are able to offer a child.
It's true that there are families out there that do not have mothers and fathers but why would you deliberately support a movement that supports a motherless or fatherless familiy.
Think about the children.
YES ON 8.
Religious beliefs aside. Why is it that nobody talks about all the scientific research out there that reveals the negative effects the homosexual lifestyle has in regards to abuse,promiscuity, desease and mortality. Do the homework people. Some of you might just start to wonder what you were thinking. A good start is The Family Research Institute and The American Family Association.
YES on 8! It's Hope not Hate!
I wish you people who are voting NO on 8 would educate yourself on the real issues..this is NOT about civil rights...HELLLLOOOO why are you people trying to align this issue with that of the civil rights movement of the 60's or womens suffrage...You dont get to choose to be black or a woman but homosexuals have a choice.. there is NOT A SHRED of scientific evidence supporting the theory that being gay is genetic..you CHOOSE your lifestyle so making this a civil rights issue as if gays dont have a choice and we in favor of prop 8 are all discriminating against them is WRONG...There is a reason our country has grown to be strong and it's because of our founding fathers who built this country on morals and the belief that "IN GOD WE TRUST"...oh wait..and "ONE NATION UNDER GOD"..do you think God would say.."Hey it's ok to change the orignal plan I created?" I think not and what's more Gay people ALREADY have the exact same civil rights as heteros...what they want is for the rest of the world to respect thier choice to live an immoral lifestyle..are we then to accept the immoral lifestyle that pedophiles want to live?? Well according to pedophiles "They can't help it..they just were born that way"...aren't we hearing the same thing from homosexuals... it is wrong...FACT... please stop trying to inject your immoral beliefs and practices into the lives of innocent children and people who ARE trying to live by God's word...YES ON 8
OH Vanessa, how about you educate yourself on the homosexuals having a choice of being gay. Is this a proven fact? NO. So you think that we have a switch of some sort that just made us gay and that we cannot turn that off? Can you tell me why you are straight? Well I have a couple of items that I would like to educate EVERYONE on. I used to be a member of the LDS church (Mormon), and when I turned 16, I was sent to a camp to live for OVER 5 years of my life trying to change who I was. Let me tell you it did not work at ALL, shock therapy, group meetings, intense one on one therapy the list goes on. I was told I was a sinner, a horrible person and that I was going to end up in HELL if I did not change my ways. Do you really want to know what HELL is? The Evergreen Program that the church sponsors.
Another issue that I want to bring up, the class of little 1st graders that went to a wedding; First off has anyone been to San Francisco? Not too many red people there most are all educated and accept all race, religion, sexuality etc. NO CHILD WAS FORCED to attend the service, there were TWO kids in the class whose parents opted them not to attend. The rest of the 18 kid's parents gave the school the OK. Do you honestly think that California is going to FORCE your children to attend GAY WEDDINGS??? If you do then you really are as closed minded as I think you are.
I do not want to force anyone to do ANYTHING that they are not comfortable with, including children. I have over 11 nieces and nephews and I do not want them to be forced to read any book about gay men or women, I just want to have the same rights as everybody else in this country. Is that so much to ask?
As for saving marriage, that is laughable. Brittney Spears, who was DRUNK at a wedding chapel in Las Vegas can get married yet my Uncle who has been with his partner for over 35 years cannot. I really do not know how to justify that, in fact there is no justification.
OH and Vanessa, there is a separation between Church and State, the MAIN reason our fathers came to this country NOT TO BE OPPRESSED BY THEIR GOVERNMENT!!! HELLO!!! Can you all listen to yourselves??
NO ON 8!!!!! EQUALITY FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joey:
you said "I do not want to force anyone to do ANYTHING that they are not comfortable with, including children"...than don't force the rest of us to adhere to changing the definition of marriage because the REST of us are uncomfortable with that ESPECIALLY the children...
I may be adolescent, but I have something to say. Why do you care so much about something that won't affect you? Permitting gay marriage won't diminish the value of heterosexual marriage. It's just a label that gives you a feeling of completion. Imagine not being able to marry your girlfriend/boyfriend, when you know you will always be together? It may not affect your relationship together, but how will the rest of the world see you? I'm scared that my gay/lesbian friends, as well as myself will have to face more discrimination as we grow up. Legalizing gay marriage took a burdening weight off my shoulders and I felt true relief knowing that if I found someone that I loved, we would be free to marry. Now the pressure has returned, and although it won't affect me today, it will one day. I hear as a campaign all the time, "Think about the children." Well that's what I'm asking you to do. Think about the children. Think about me and all the other gay teens who starve for equality. Give us a feeling of safety and acceptance so that we may one day marry the one we truly love.
98% of California is NOT gay..so why should we be forced by the mere %2 of the gay population to change one of the major institutions that our country was founded upon. Analogy: What about the pedophiles in the world? Dont they have rights...Just like gays they say "We were born this way we cant help it"... SORRY sexual orientation and LIFESTYLE CHOICE is NOT GENETIC..I repeat NOT genetic..just because pedophiles can't help themselves doesn't mean they get force the rest of the world into thinking what they do is ok... hey they aren't hurting anyone as long as they dont act upon thier urges right????WRONG...ALSO, what if I wanted to marry my brother...we are in love, we want to have kids..why can't we be together, we aren't hurting anyone, we are two consenting adults..WHY? BECAUSE IT'S WRONG!!!! How do you know it's wrong?? Ask yourself where right and wrong come from? How do you innately know right from wrong? Who taught you that? Wake up..this does affect the children..I have children and I dont want them growing up thinking that it's ok, acceptable, or even remotely close to believing that it's ok to marry anyone, or any animal, or ANYTHING else other than someone of the opposite sex...if we allow gay marriage to continue we are headed directly for a genderless, immoral, devalued society, how will our children then define thier roles in family life.. a father, a protector, a mother, the nuturer...come on people read the research, there is a reason why we are on this earth, something BIGGER driving us to survive and live and it's called procreation...our main purpose for being created now how can you naturally do that with someone of the same sex ..I wish people would stop making up issues to defend why they think this prop is wrong..it's not about civil rights, it's not about marrying someone you love, it's about upholding what our country was built upon, salvaging what is left of the foundation of a burning broken down building..gay people are here, they are not going anywhere, we can't do anything but accept them as children of God, but dont force everyone else to respect your lifestyle choice because THAT IS WRONG!!!! People against this prop will tell you that we that support it have not tolerance, we are haters and biggots..well all i can say is actions speak louder than those horrible words you use.. look at how many your so called people are practising hate and intolerance by tearing down the YES ON 8 signs.. in essence removing OUR right to exercise freedom of speech..you talk about hypocrisy..look in mirror..Mark my words..this proposition WILL pass...if not because the majority of CA wants it to then by the will or God...do your homework, educate yourselves instead of listening to what everyone else tells you and VOTE YES ON 8
Vanessa - with logic like yours, a boy scout armed with a compass and scissors couldn't find his way out of a brown paper bag. ask yourself this: what tragedies have occurred since the decision that you deplore so much? have people stopped procreating? have people been discouraged from procreating? from getting married? from expressing their love? not a bit. has anyone talked about marrying animals, or tried to? not a bit. what you represent is hysteria, not common sense.
Joey and the 14-year-old:
first, Joey, congratulations on your courage & hard work in rejecting the hateful message you were raised with, and in (I hope) escaping the awful people who mistreated you so badly. I hope that you've now overcome all of the evil, and I do mean evil, that was directed at you.
as to the 14-year-old: don't be afraid. the main reason for the hysteria you see on this site is that the bigots here, who have no common sense, realize that the way of the future is the way of tolerance. and try as hard as they like, they can't prevent that. even if Prop 8 passes, that just means it will be a few more years. and that's what really scares these jackasses.
YES on 8 because I have hate im my heart!
Body: 10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong
1) Being gay is not natural.
-And real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning, tattoos, piercings and silicon breasts...
2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay.
-In the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior.
-People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. Lamps are next.
4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all;
-Hence why women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed;
-And we can't let the sacred "Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage" be destroyed.
6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children.
-So therefore, gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our population isn't out of control, our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children,
-Since, of course, straight parents only raise straight children.
8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion.
-In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home.
-Which is exactly why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms.
-Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
Vote No On Prop 8
Gary, every single one of your observations is dead-on. and yet somehow clouds of obfuscation and hysteria will appear as an "adequate" response. the thought seems to be that if I just assert "IT'S JUST NOT NATURAL" often enough, in capital letters, that will somehow rebut your observations.