Aaron

Has the Rocklin City Council offered you a good buy on a house in Rocklin so you do not blog against them? They said they are going to make spending cuts. This is after they spent over 1 million dollars to move rocks around at Rocklin Road and I-80. Just wait until they come back with their plan to raise the sales tax for Placer County. Lets not forget about downtown Rocklin. Wait, we do not have a downtown Rocklin. The city manager said it will be at least another 20 years before we have a downtown. But Aaron you support those guys. Is George giving you a good deal on a mortgage? Maybe you are getting the Senator Dodd deal on a cut rate loan.

Aaron
Please, please stifle those thought of leaving us. You are a perfect, well sorta perfect foil. You big lug, underneath it all, you are this warm fuzzy huggy bear.

(let's all have a big group hug for Aaron)

Now back to crass, err, class politics. Aaron, did you know that you are being abandoned by all sorts of people who now are getting religion about Creation Care.

I have mentioned before the Matthew 25 Network who consists of a whole bunch of Christian Evangelicals who deeply care about Creation Care. And as you well know Matthew 25 refers to the scripture about Separating The Sheep From the Goats.

Guess who is starting to be concerned about Our Creator’s opinion of him. That be this guy…

Bush Hails G-8 summit's work on climate change
By DEB RIECHMANN,
Associated Press
Posted: 2008-07-09 07:46:39
TOYAKO, Japan (AP) - President Bush on Wednesday hailed the move by G-8 leaders to coalesce behind a broad climate-change strategy, saying in a valedictory to summitry that "significant progress" has been made on global warming.

"In order to address climate change, all major economies must be at the table, and that's what took place today," Bush said at the conclusion of the summit of leading industrialized nations - talks that he said also strove to advance free trade and combat hunger and disease around the world, particularly in Africa.

The global warming statement represented quite a progression for Bush, who in his first term disputed scientists' assertions about this problem. At his final G-8 summit as president, and heartily backed a declaration saying that greenhouse gas emissions should be cut in half by the middle of the century.

"We made clear, and the other nations agreed, that they must also participate in an ambitious goal," Bush said, "with an interim goal, with interim plans to enable the world to successfully address climate change. And we made significant progress toward a comprehensive approach."

In a statement that he read to reporters here, he also reiterated his position that substantive progress in the climate change area will necessarily hinge on further development of clean energy technology. Developing nations, he said, will need assistance so they can become "good stewards of the environment."
Aaron, re-read that carefully. It appears that your guy is separating himself from you and starting to find your shrill blasts at Creation Care folks as tiresome and “so yesterday”

He does not want to be the Goat On Judgment Day.

You can’t fool the Fisherman…

So let me understand...

The President, in the last year of his term, decides he wants to support the reduction of CO2 emissions (seems like he decided to follow his party's nominee, but that's just me thinking out loud).

And you see that as a conflict with the kind of forest management that can minimize these raging wildfires, protect our homes and stop all of this putrid smoke from clogging our air?

Are we only for improving the part of the environment we can't see, or are we just for scoring political points? :)

All joshing aside, Lee, you are absolutely correct that Christians have a moral responsibility to care for this planet we have been entrusted with.

Genesis 1:26 - Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

"Rule" was translated as "dominion" in the KJV, and either word involves both rights and responsibilities that must be carefully balanced. Far too often, conservatives care only about rights, and liberals care only about responsibilities.

Again, two sides to the equation -- how do you see the balance?

"Again, two sides to the equation -- how do you see the balance?"

This speaks to the absurdity of Lee's comment - I am an Eagle Scout. Therefore, I have more outdoors / conservation experience than most Sierra Club Wackos.

It is quite consistent to look at the wildfires and ask why has the Sierra Club not been hammered over 30 years of lawsuits preventing forest management? That certainly is not creation care.

In Romans Chapter one - it talks about worshipping the creation rather than the creator. The modern eco-movement places insects over humans... that is wrong.

Creation care is about being good stewards and having balanced environmentalism - not the insanity that the Sierra Club perpetrates.

Aaron

You warm fuzzy huggy bear, I am concerned about you. You are being abandoned by all sorts of friends. T Boone has decided he does want to be a Goat, either.

Some other guy who wears an (R) letterman’s jacket talked the other day on TeeVee about this great nation needing to go into Manhattan Project mode. I said the exact same thing not so long ago right here at RCP.

It is time to stop the Climate Change denying. We need to take some of that money from Uncle Sam’s collection plate and dangle it front of real smart guys who like to make money and get pats on the back to boot.

The Fisherman is watching and I don’t want you left behind…

Your friend

Lee

PS...tell your big brother George that he is a warm fuzzy huggy bear, too

I musta dropped my Kool-Aid before reading your comment. I don't know what the ---- you are trying to say.

Even my pet rat can't figure it out... now that's saying something.

Aaron, here is:

The short version translation goes like this...

That ole devil may care corporate raider T Boone Pickens is digging down in his Levis for loose change. He is spending that loose change to promote alternative energy as the way to decrease American dependence on oil. One sees his TV spots on the cable news channels several times a day. He says these spots are just the beginning of the campaign he is mounting over the next several months. He is saying that he very much buys into the reality of the fact that there has been Climate Change. He says regarding our oil dependence that we can not drill our way out of this problem. He emphasizes that he made his bones as “an oil man”, that this is not some old fart Sierra Club guy talking.

T Boone was one of the chief sugar daddies to the Texas Swifties in 2004. He has been a mean ole cuss. But now he seems to have gotten in bed with the Greenies. Why is he now getting religion about an issues long embraced by Al Gore environmental care types? Rather than me taking a guess at that question, I’ll just let him do his thing over the next several months.

No, wait a minute, I am going to take a shot at that now. And it ties into Bush and the Republican talking head who used the phrase “Manhattan Project” to emphasize the urgency and the national security aspects of our situation now.

We Americans are all in this together. Things that affect the John Q Consumerism Public greatly affect Wall Street. And things that affect Wall Street greatly affect John Q Consumerism Public.

That said, we are now caught in a very scary negative economic spiral. That spiral is slowing picking up speed as if were a hurricane 500 miles off shore.
I do not have enough internets electrons at my disposal to go into the economic dynamic that is going on now. Trust me, it ain’t good.

The mega-rich who have seen their wealth greatly increase during the Bush years. And now they see their wealth going south. I think yesterday on Wall Street was a colon cleanser for them.

So, Aaron and George, your Rove supplied talking points are soooo out of date. Rove is so busy staying ahead of the long arm of the law that he hasn’t been able to send you updates.

Bush and Rove used you big time to get them in the oval office in 2000 and 2004. They laughed at you in private, calling you “whackos”. They used you to push their real agenda and believe me, it was not your agenda. Yes, they threw you a bone or two to keep you hanging in there with them.

They are high class con artists and they do what con artists do. Once they get what they want from their mark, they ease out the back door leaving the mark holding the bag full of fake goods. Yes you got the piddly little tax cut, a couple of friendly judges, the faith-based initiatives program, and a few other small change things.

You will continue to be the rear guard. But the disconnect between you and them is becoming more apparent and ever widening. They aren’t exactly laughing all the way to the bank because most of the mega banks are “insolvent”. They are getting damned scared as they did yesterday. They now realize that as the Brits say, they have been “too clever by half”

I don’t think I am telling you anything you do not know. You have “got it”. The vast majority of Americans have “got it”. I just overheard my wife talking with her sister on the phone, “We are in deep doo doo”

America is a resilient nation. Americans are good, pragmatic, discerning, and resourceful people.

We can pull together, and that entails a good faith listening to each other’s pragmatic ideas. We are now well beyond rigid ideologies, either left or right.

It is the audacity to be all Americans working together…

I saw the ad you are referring to and I think your analysis goes way too far.

The Enviros are obsessed with trying to eliminate anything resembling energy and economy - first off the SUV and anything that uses Oil.

They are almost like luddites. 'Ol Pickens is talking about balance.

OBambi is talking about $12 gas... that's a real winner. (not a whiner)

Wanna listen to pragmatic ideas? Try acknowledging that Gasoline is the order of the day and responsible government accommodates demand - and directs the future into Green energy.

BTW - the sierra club can't even handle that - they filed and WON lawsuits aimed at stopping the construction of solar power plants down south... something about the ecosystem of wastelands was more important than the needs of humans again.

C'est La Vie - let it burn, 2000 lawsuits / complants in 30 years to stop thinning and clearing of forests. Pragmatism, are you kidding me?

What Would Charlie Do? Haven't heard squat from him...

Aaron, you say:
Pragmatism, are you kidding me?

What Would Charlie Do? Haven't heard squat from him..

Well Charlie is squatting and lifting cases of bottled water. He is a doer.

Lemmee say that louder…“CHARLIE IS A DOER“

This is what Charlie has been doing….

http://calitics.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=276324786053DECA20E2764AF38DE465?diaryId=6389

He shows up and lends a hand with no fanfare He rubs shoulders with folks who could use a hand. He goes to places where ordinary folks are trying as best they can just to get through the next few days. He shows up to support to the real heroes, near exhausted firefighters out on the fire line.

He knows that in time of crisis, whether it be flying a search and rescue chopper in Vietnam or heading a caravan of much needed supplies to victims of wildfires in the area of Oroville, it is action that fits the situation that is needed.

If you weren’t so wrapped up in partisanship, you would understand that…Charlie represents the finest tradition of the audacity of all Americans working together…

You are a good man, Charlie Brown…

Good Lord, Lee dodging the questions as usual. Bet you are in great shape for your Golf Game.

I wasn't asking about Charlie's charity work - I was asking about Charlie's stances on issues in specifics.

Seems neither you or he are capable of articulating any of it...

Aaron

Pay attention to your questions. And keep them simple. I am an old geezer who can't remember half the time why I went some place in my home and end up standing there trying to remember. I answered your last question.

I don’t have time for golf today. First my wife and I go to 8 o’clock service at our church. We are taking a bunch of empty plastic Coke bottles to pass out for the Gathering Inn. Last week we passed out same at the 10:15 service. These are to collect that stuff that make your wife mad when she is doing a wash and you leave it in your pockets. So every household should have one of these bottles.

Then I go over to Orangevale Community Center. It is the annual ACBL unit 505 awards Swiss Team and Potluck. I will not get an award. But I do place high in top 10 of the Ace of Clubs list. Yes, I am one of the best players in the Sacramento Valley. I made Life Master earlier this year.

You ask for balance, I give you balance. What do you do to add balance to your life?

Lee,

With all due respect, you appeared in Charlie Brown's television commercials and are a part of his campaign.

You cannot orchestrate fanfare for your candidate by saying that he "shows up and lends a hand with no fanfare."

If you honestly believe that is intellectually consistent, go back to school, my friend.

Charlie Brown -- lots of good works, always with a photographer and press spokesman trailing him!

George

I am not part of Charlie's campaign. I may later in the election cycle as a volunteer. But that is iffy now because of travel plans But this turning into a longer story than I want to go into. I haven't given him a dime. But I do want someone who cares about me and our other citizens of CA-04. And I want someone who does more than make just cameo appearances before select groups of people as Tom is going to do on this coming Wednesday.

Why don''t you just own up that you are up to your ears with Tom's campaign insteat of impugning someone else.

And have a Coke and a smile...:-)

Another thing, George

I wouldn't be here at all if it were not for George W Bush and his ill-considered and ill-executed war in Iraq. I was a sleeping dog who didn't care much about local politics. I actually gave grudging support to the beginning of the Iraq War, largely due to my admiration and trust in Colin Powell.

But now I am hypervigilent about all things having to do with the the ill-executed war on terrorism. I have more skin in the game than most. I did see something recently in poking around about McClintock a couple of days ago. He was quoted as having having some serious reservations about how Bush handled mobilizing John Q after 9/11. He said that Bush spoke with a mixed message when he exhorted folks to go out and defeat the terrorist by being good consumers. I don't think Mcclintock is a big fan of Bush.

It's early yet. I would like to see more fire in his belly in general and fire in his belly to represent all of us in CA-04, not just those on the right wing fringe...

CA-04 is a wonderful place to live. It is multi-cultural in many ways. Its people are in general very hard working. And that especially includes some at the very bottom of our work force.

If McClintock shows some serious commitment to listening to all of us, and give all of us access, and work with folks across the political aisle from him...then he may leave Charlie in his dust.

We'll see...

And have another Coke and a smile...

I wasn't asking about Charlie's charity work - I was asking about Charlie's stances on issues in specifics.

Seems neither you or he are capable of articulating any of it...

Congrats on the Bridge Award - I know how to play Bridge, complex card game... but you can pass loads of time.

As I drink a coke... :)

Not sure who you mean by "George" -- I guess it could be George W. Bush or George Park. But in any case, I'm not going to confirm or deny any guesses at my identity. I blog under this name for reasons similar to Bob.

Now Lee, I think it's just laughable to say that a guy who appears in television ads and spends considerable amounts of time on political blogs puffing Charlie Brown isn't a part of the campaign. I don't want to torture the definitions of words too much, but it sounds like you don't know what the definition of is is.

There is nothing for me to admit -- I'm a 100% McClintock supporter and proud of it. I have no paid role, but you can count me as energetically with Tom and John McCain as you are energetically for Charlie and Barack.

What I don't pretend to be is a centrist former member of the other party who is disaffected. I'm proud to be what I am, and perfectly willing to put my country over party by criticizing my own party when it is wrong (hence my characterization of the Bush administration when it comes to federal overspending).

I think you're right that McClintock is not a Bush partisan, any more than I am. We desperately must win the war on terror, and I wish this President had the foresight to be a little more Churchilian (blood, sweat, toil and tears) than Dr. Phil (hug your kids and go to the mall).

People want change in this country. And the interesting thing is, the folks in CD 4 are going to get it this year, both in the presidency and in Congress.

Now the question is -- what kind of change do they want?

Rising tax rates? Slower economic growth? Regulations run amok? Sweaters and turning down thermostats? Pessimism? (That's called the Barack-Charlie Plan.)

Or...more freedom...lower taxes...get the job done in the war on terror and bring our troops home...simultaneously increase oil supply and decrease demand with new technologies...more economic growth...and a rising tide that lifts all boats. (That's called the McCain-McClintock Plan.)

That's the choice in front of us in this election.

Lee - Employing some of your Psychological tactics again?

George E. Park, Jr... my brother, reads these blogs and does not need to comment as I am in the same office as he is.

If he did comment - he would call you out under his own name.

Now - how about some concrete answers to issues?

George

I'm afraid you do not understand the intensity and the dedication of folks like me.

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK

I want my country back from the neocons
I want my country back from the con artists
I want my country back from the greedy thieves
and fast buck artists epitomized by IndyMac
I want my country back from the fear and smear artists

I am an old man who has been around the block a time or two. I have paid my dues. I have never chiseled or cut corners. I started working hard when I was 11 years old. Well, you have the picture…

I will not be jeered or smeared by the likes of you.
Not now
Not ever

Now have a Coke and a smile…

THIS IS HOW TOM McCLINTOCK GETS MY SUPPORT

1.He has to represent me and my neighbors regardless of party affiliation

2 He has to pledge to work with all of his colleagues in Congress.

3. He has to go easy on the stultifying ideology and heavy on common sense pragmatism that any entrepreneur worth his salt has to do.

4. Last, but not least, he has to work his district. This is like the entrepreneur who “walks the plant” and checks out every nook and cranny to see if things are in working order. In this regard, he has to sign a notarized pledge that can be enforced in court. Congress is not in session 16 weeks of the year. He needs to be back in this district 8 weeks. That is 56 days. He has to hold formal and informal town meetings open to all and not just a select group. He has to work 10 hour days doing this with no long lunches at Whitney Oaks CC or similar places. In short, he has to be proactively accessible and proactively engaged with me and my neighbors. Our needs are not policy wonking and trickle down solutions…

So that is Our Job Description. If he has no interest in this job description, he can Beemer on down to the Hoover Institute and find a job there…

Lee Reed, member of the 150, 000+ hiring committee of CA
CA-04

Mr. Reed,

Your pal Chuck Schumer is to blame for the IndyMac failure:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/07/feds-cite-schum.html

Hey Lee,

Guess what? I want my country back.

I want my country back from the high taxes.

I want my country back from the crushing regulations.

I want my country back from the fear of terrorism.

I want my country back from the sweater and thermostat folks trying to tell me how to live in want.

This November, almost every single American is going to want change. The question is, do they want Barack+Charlie Change, or do they want McCain+McClintock Change?

I think I know the answer in Placer County...the work of you partisan Democratic professionals notwithstanding. :)

Oh, and in terms of your "smear and jeer" statement, I have never smeared or jeered you. I have complete and utter respect for your skills as a Democratic political pro. You deserve my respect as an opponent, and you have it.

But don't whine about "smears" and "jeers" when I continue to make logical points, and you respond with anecdotes, psychoanalysis, spin, dodge and confuse.

Why don't you answer the questions about energy? About fighting the war on terror to win it? About federal funding for faith-based programs? About Charlie being to the left of Obama on a variety of issues?

If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen!

Ben

I guess I should be pleased that you and George think I am a "pro". I do express myself better than a certain full-time pro(that not be you, Jeff) and a number of pretty low on the food chain boot-licking and water carrying political hangers-on.

I've had, um mm, about five years now to reconnect myself with the King's English. And over that time, I have developed a certain style of expressing myself. You and George can thank the Bumbling Incompetent and his gang for appalling me enough to polish my skills.

My skills are not for sale. I am not in need of anything material. This is for my son and daughter and my step-son and daughter and my two biracial adopted grandkids.

Ummm, "pro" you say. That has a nice ring to it and will make for some amusement at upcoming dinner parties with good friends, both (D)s and hard right (R)s who really know who I am.

Thanks for the dinner party material. I can always use some...

And have a Coke and a Smile...

dang...now that I am a "pro", I have to run a spell-check...how inconvenient...

George

You say:

Hey Lee,

Guess what? I want my country back.

I want my country back from the high taxes.

I want my country back from the crushing regulations.

I want my country back from the fear of terrorism.

I want my country back from the sweater and thermostat folks trying to tell me how to live in want.

Just some simple facts.

There are three branches of the Federal Government.

A conservative dominated "revolution" won control of Congress in 1994. Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House, offing the more moderate, Bob Michaels. This majority held sway until John Q got pretty sick and tired of the Bumbling Incompetent and his congressional enablers. They tossed some of the more flagrant bums out in 2006. That is 12 years of control.

On the Senate side, a somewhat less ideological tinged ® held at least 50 seats, and at times as much as 55-45.

The Supreme Court

The current Supreme Court has:

Kennedy and Scalia appointed by Reagan

Thomas appointed by GHWB

Roberts and Alito by GWB

And last but by no means least O’Connor (retired) who had the pivotal vote in Gore v. Bush 2000. O’Connor appointed by Reagan.

The Executive Branch

George W. Bush 2001-present.

What on Earth are you talking about re you wanting your country back? To be sure, Rove’s grandiose plan to make the Republican Party dominated by conservatives “a permanent majority” fell a cropper because John Q started getting wise to his ways and said and are saying, “enough is enough, we want our country back”.

You are whining with two loaves of bread under your arm pits and grubbing and grabbing for more….

Lee, that's quite funny. If we want to talk years of control, during the last 54 years, Democrats have controlled Congress for 42 of them.

Unfortunately, many of the "Republicans" that have been elected or appointed have fallen victim to Washington Syndrome, and haven't held true to the principles they first espoused. They became petty about position and power, and started thinking that lobbyists were their bosses, not the people back home in their districts.

And in terms of policy, Democrats have been far smarter, and more effective, in pursuit of their ideal that government is the answer and solution for every problem known to man.

My favorite President used to describe your philosophy as such: "if it moves, tax it...if it keeps moving, regulate it...and then when it stops moving, subsidize it."

That's what I find so interesting. Usually, in an election, one side represents the status quo, and the other side represents change. And then the broad middle of the country decides the election -- if they like the way things are going, they stick with the horse they're on; otherwise, they pick change.

But folks have been saying for eight years that this would be a very strange election, because for the first time in many of our lifetimes, there would be "no incumbent" -- no sitting VP or President on the ballot.

You see it in the campaigns -- McCain is campaigning against the 2000s just as much as Obama was campaigning in the primaries against the 1990s AND 2000s.

So this is a change election on both sides of the ballot. Change is guaranteed on January 20, 2009. And the broad middle of the country is going to decide what KIND of change they want.

I want change that stops the taxes and the regulations and the overspending and the pork barrel politics, and restores integrity, competitiveness and economic growth.

And what I keep trying to understand -- all of your partisan attacks aside -- is why you think the sole answer to our energy crisis is the sweater and thermostat solution. Why you think taxes and government spending is the solution to every problem. And why you still refuse to answer policy questions about your candidate rather than post partisan attacks or anecdotes about dinner parties.

This coke's for you...

ummm, I don't do coke...

George, you forgot what put the (D)s in the saddle from 1932 to 1952. And now its looming deja vu all over again.

And you forgot what put Carter in the WH. Its deja vu all over again.

And you forgot what put Clinton in the WH. Its deja vu all over again.

But it sounds like you could use a Coke and a Smile...

George

My mom and dad lived through the 30's. My dad's dad was a (R) through and through. My dad became a life-long (D) because of the hard times that followed the Crash of '29.

And here we are...nothing new under the sun...Eccl.

July 14 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell, sending financial shares to their biggest drop in eight years, on heightened concern that bank failures will spread.

Guess what's the lead story on Charlie Gibson is as I write this...

Sad, sad, sad...

Lee,

Maybe you could call me "Dutch" instead? ;)

You're enough to make everybody laugh out loud. Will you just drop the pose of being a sad, disaffected former Republican? You are one of the most partisan Democrats out there! And you're giggling with glee because you think this election will result in a redux of 1992.

Yes, there are major economic problems right now. And the Democrats will gladly solve them by taxing, spending, regulating, subsidizing and sweater 'n thermostating this country to death.

Given that we have a genuine American hero with a record of putting country before self heading our ticket -- and you have a naive, ineffective state senator with the least amount of experience for anyone ever THINKING about running for President heading yours -- I'll take our chances any day of the week.

This IS a change election -- but the problem for the Democrats is that nobody (especially in Placer County) wants the change that Lee, Barack and Charlie are peddling! :)

George

You be no "Dutch". My wife has read some of your stuff and said, "that was not Ronald Reagan. He was a positive man, a decent man"

In a way, both my wife and I knew "Dutch" without ever having met him. You see, we grew up in the mid-west. Both Dutch and I grew up in the Land of Lincoln. My wife grew up in North Dakota. All of us grew up in very modest circumstances small towns. We acquired small town values. That was a large part of our “formation”.

George, I know that you want to eschew talking about your formation. That is very un-Dutch-like. He was fond of telling stories, you call them “anecdotes”, about his formation.

I am especially struck by this story;

For the time, Reagan was unusual in his opposition to racial discrimination, and recalled a time in Dixon when the local inn would not allow black people to stay there. Reagan brought them back to his house, where his mother invited them to stay the night and have breakfast the next morning.

I had a very similar experience at age 16 that shaped my values for the rest of my life. I will spare you this story. You have no patience for “anecdotes” but Dutch did. He could listen as well as he could talk.

Dutch was a gifted communicator. He was winsome as all get out. He answered the call well before Pearl Harbor. He had an eye-sight problem as I do. But he did all that he could in uniform for his country.

Dutch had an on-going love affair with Nancy. He wrote her frequent love letters. He was very gifted in expressing his romantic and tender feeling for her. My wife who is close at hand smiles.

Yes, growing up in small town mid-west is formative that lasts a life-time.

George, I’m not saying you couldn’t be “Dutch” sometime in the future. I am a believer in the essential goodness of people. That is a value I share with Dutch, too.

Have a Coke and a smile…and think of the day that you might grow up to be “Dutch”-like. I am pulling for you…and Dutch is too….

See, these kind of responses are precisely why I continually have the sneaking suspicion that you are actually a professional Democrat pol.

I have said a lot of very nice and admirable things about you, pointed out where you were right on quite a few issues, and half-right on even more (from my perspective), offered respect to you as an opponent, and have never personally attacked your character, not even once.

I actually do enjoy many of your anecdotes, but I must tell you, I was under the mistaken assumption that we were debating the issues!

Anecdotes and stories aside -- and they are interesting, because they paint a picture of a Lee Reed who sincerely loves his wife, his family and his country -- you simply refuse to answer some basic questions about the positions you hold, or your candidate holds.

Here's a short list of what we've talked about, and what we still don't know...

1. We don't know whether Lee and/or Charlie support federal funding for faith-based groups, like Barack now does (we do know that Charlie likes to do good works, which is admirable, but not exclusive to the Democratic Party).

2. We don't know why Lee and/or Charlie are opposed to the idea of dramatically lessening demand AND increasing the supply of oil in a ten year "Manhattan Project" that could very quickly restore American cost competitiveness around the world, stop the transfer of our wealth to countries that don't have our best interests at heart, and breathe new life into our economy.

3. We don't know why Lee and/or Charlie believe that more federal spending and more secret earmarks are good for this country, or for our district. Word on the street is that Charlie is going around to all of the local elected officials promising them earmarks if they'll endorse him. I'm sure it's not that explicit, but is it effectively true? We don't know.

4. We don't know why Lee and/or Charlie believe that we should raise taxes by letting the 2001 tax cuts expire. Supposedly, they believe that raising taxes would flood the treasury with money, although the reality we all know is that higher taxes depress economic growth, kill jobs, and hurt the poorest of the poor among us, even if the taxes aren't aimed directly at them.

These are the issues, Lee. I respect you, admire you as a person, and appreciate your love of country and engagement in the debate.

But if you aren't going to answer some of these questions, and in turn, ask some of me (what's good for the goose...), then we're not actually debating. We're just telling stories on the Internets.

Nice post Dutch,

I am curious if you really believe a McCain presidency would result in more energy. As you mentioned in an earlier post, big government types (like McCain) have been opposed to energy exploration for over 10 years despite evidence we were heading for crisis. It seems political expediency has at least temporarily changed McCain's attitude. Do you honestly believe he is sincere? I'm betting that a McCain presidency would give him a bigger pulpit to condescend to conservatives from.

Hi Ben,

Tom McClintock probably said it best when he said that John McCain wasn't his first choice, nor his second, third, fourth, fifth or even sixth choice for President. You're right that McCain has a history of making some boneheaded decisions.

But I look at this from two angles: first, will he do more good than harm, and second, is he better than the alternative?

I'm not sure McCain actually changed his position on exploration. As far as I know, he never had one on offshore exploration, and he curiously remains opposed to exploration in ANWR. Never heard him talk about North Dakota and the big oil deposits there.

The "facts on the ground" of $5 per gallon gasoline are a good reason to change one's mind on exploration. We can argue that McCain was wrong in the past, and I think we'd be right, but I'd take McCain, who has learned his lesson on this issue, over Obama, who remains stubbornly and ideologically opposed to reality, any day of the week.

Your point about "condescend to conservatives" is well taken, and conservatives should be careful, because we've been burned before (see Schwarzenegger, Arnold). But honestly, if you look at the issues where McCain has a lifelong record of being correct -- wasteful federal spending, fighting wars to win them, respect for life -- I think he will do a lot of good as President.

And then you get to the second point of my argument. Barack Obama makes John McCain look like he's to the right of Ron Paul. I have never seen a more naive, inexperienced and dangerous liberal in my entire life. Just five years ago, he was debating speed limits as an Illinois State Senator. He has less experience than anyone who has ever before THOUGHT of running for President, and he wants to be the leader of the free world? Now that's what I call audacity!

We sometimes forget when we lionize Ronald Reagan that the Gipper made his share of mistakes too. In fact, he pushed for and won amnesty for illegal immigrants in 1986. So I'm beyond the fact that John McCain is not perfect.

This is a dangerous world, and we have big problems (as Lee is good at pointing out, and I hope he keeps doing). And we need a serious President who has the skills, experience and leadership to get us out of them.

New York Daily News reporting today that Barack Obama's staff replaced his Iraq issues page on his web site, removing the words "the surge is not working and has not reduced violence".

Poor Charlie Brown. It must be hard for him, paddling furiously on his little life raft, when the Obama speed boat keeps cutting him off while swerving to the right. I don't think being "more liberal than Barack Obama" is going to work well for him in November.

And no word yet on whether Obama will announce that he's always been for drilling for oil in Lee's back yard in Sun City Roseville.

George

This old "pro" is going awol on Charlie. Going to drive over to SLC in the morning. Be away until next Tuesday.

I'm in a "box" now in more ways than one. I have thought about getting an internets card. But what "pro" buys his own card?

Tell you what. If you could get me an internets card, I would advocate for Mcclintock...

Well, not really :-)...I already posted what my conditions are for McClintock to gain my support...run them by him...

Lee,

Have a great trip. We'll miss you. Seriously, when you get back -- let's have a real debate on the issues, rather than partisan talking points.

"Jorge"

George

I'll tell you a sad tale about drilling in my back yard...

It was circa 1955. There was a minor oil boom in our neighborhood. We lived on an 80 acre farm and the family finances were getting pretty grim. Oil was struck on all four sides of us. So it looked pretty good for us, but no...a duster.

My family fell on really hard times. One of those would, coulda, shouldas...

Thanks a whole bunch for taking me back there...

Sorry for the bad reminder, Lee...but obviously, I had no clue.

However, I have to return to the energy topic, because something happened today that was fascinating.

To start off, let's recall a recent comment by Bob regarding energy. Here's the quote: "If we do this [drill for oil offshore and in ANWR] don't expect the price of oil to budge much due to putting an additional 1% or 2% of reserves on line (which is what these fields represent as a portion of the world's reserves) that won't deliver any oil for several years. Even if the oil were available now the price would not change much because there is currently no short-term demand and supply problem."

Here's the link: http://www.redcounty.com/placercountyca/2008/07/ultimatum-to-the-gop/#c68463

Today, the President rescinded executive orders prohibiting offshore drilling and called on Congress to do the same. He had a big press conference and announced how hard he was going to push for this, and put all kinds of pressure and blame on Congress for keeping gas prices high.

Now, this is a lame duck President. Congress doesn't like him much. But instantly, oil markets drop nearly 5% -- a barrel of oil goes from $145 to $138.

Fascinating, huh?

Wonder what might happen to the price of oil -- and the Democrats' theories about "ten years to make any difference" -- if Congress were to actually get our little ten year "increase the supply and reduce the demand" project going?

Anybody else interested in slugging it out with the economic theory of supply and demand? Or would the sweater-and-thermostat folks like to give up and go home?

Hey George

I watched the same thing. Bush looked as nervous as the proverbial wh____ in church when he started talking. His face was real pinched and pale. Totally absent was the drugstore cowboy cockiness. The man was very frightened.

Did you see the video clip that I posted yesterday called

Chimps In Armani Suits

Its about the psychology of the oil traders who back up their opining with skin in the game.

The market of stocks did a sine wave today...traders are confused. gold rocketed up to 978.

You used the term, "Manhattan Project" yesterday I think in reference to getting more oil asap. I used it in a more broader sense with a distinct tilt toward alternative energy.

Also, didja hear Bush talk about smaller, battery powered autos?

Can you spell P-R-I-U-S ?

the Prius is all washed and gassed up...It's a fun car to drive. Try it sometime...you might like it....

Lee

The Prius is a *great* car to drive. And the plug-in Prius (coming down the pike soon) will be even better.

So I completely agree (and always have) that we have to do something to reduce demand for oil.

Are you able to agree we might want to simultaneously do something to increase supply?

one word...

ABSOLUTELY

Now the hard part...why not Charlie or Barack?

Have a good trip, Lee. :)

And oil is down another $4 today in the wake of the President's rescinding of the executive orders, and calling for Congress to allow offshore drilling.

I know Lee is on vacation, but it's always funny to watch an actively commented post die as soon as the facts get in the way of Bob and Lee's arguments! :)

So why did the Bumbling Incompetent wait until oil went to 140+ before he made his pale faced announcement?

Remember right after the 2004 election? He said he had a Mandate. To some of us, that was a head scratcher. What did he mean by that?

Then a few months later, there he is, smiling as he is strolling with some Saudi Prince holding hands. That was his Man Date. I wonder what sweet nothings they whispered in each others ear...

Meanwhile, lots of folks are victims of the Man Date...

But that was such a touching scene, The Bumbling Incompetent and the Saudi Prince out on their Man Date...don'tcha think...

Lee from Elko Red Lion...

Ah yes, never let a personal insult of a President who has made many mistakes get in the way of debating the issues!

But hey, I'll take you up on that.

Why did your buddy Barack take so long to come out with his real position on Iraq ("stay until there is calm"). Or is this his false position on Iraq?

Why did your buddy Charlie wait four days before remembering he was pro-Second Amendment and issuing his press statement applauding the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves?

And by the way, when will your buddy Charlie let us know how he feels about increasing the supply of oil as well as decreasing demand? Or whether he supports federal funding for faith-based programs?

Oh, and the bloom is sort of off the Obama rose in a big way now. Did you hear that his chief political guy up until 2005 is now out shopping his services as a lobbyist, promising insider access to the Obama administration?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11820.html

Now, THAT'S change you can put on a credit card!

If you have a high enough credit limit.

I am not insulting GWB as a person. I am sure that he is a real fine man. I am commenting on his professional performance over the last several years. Who he is as a "person" doesn't affect me or John Q. Who he is as a professional, which happens to be POTUS, does affect me and John Q.

If he would have been CEO of a Fortune 500 company and performed the way he has as POTUS, he would have been given an offer he couldn't refuse.

Lee from Elko Red Lion...

"If he would have been CEO of a Fortune 500 company and performed the way he has as POTUS, he would have been given an offer he couldn't refuse."

On this, I think you're probably correct.

Which is why the entire country wants -- and is going to get -- change this November.

What kind of change...is still up in the air. :)

Ummm

We seem to have reached a point of agreement about something here.

I was at breakfast a little over 24 hours ago and over heard this Political Genius pontificating to the locals. He said that McCain and Obama were both Democrats. Bob Barr was his kind of guy but would be a wasted vote. And so he "had no place to go".

But then he launched into a "take it from me" that this most recent stock market swoon was all Obama's fault. He had "heard this". I didn't see a whole lot of folks nodding their head.

I guess Obama is not the kind of change he wants.

Then I walked back across the street to the Red Lion and past the spa inside. There was this very prominent "OBAMA '08" taped to an inside window. I was wondering why the hotel management was allowing this. I guess it is that first amendment thing...

Just checking in from Beans and Brew in SLC to get my ticket punched. We "pros" have to do that in order to turn in a voucher to get paid...

Lee

I understand the feeling -- and I'm sure the Prius is clocking you some great mileage. Now if you could just plug it in and get the first hour for "free". :)

Reaching agreement is cool. But I'm a little bummed, because it had nothing to do with a policy issue. Only President Bush.

It is true that there are plenty of Republicans upset with McCain over immigration or other issues where they've disagreed with him in the past. In the end, will they risk an Obama presidency by not voting, or voting for Barr, over these issues?

I'm going to predict no -- but I could be wrong.

But I'll say this -- at least we all know where McCain stands! The only "change" he's made in emphasis is his support for offshore exploration -- and the facts have certainly changed on the ground to cause his shift in emphasis.

Meanwhile, back at the Obama Starfleet, we have been swerving to the right or doing barrel rolls so violently that air traffic control is thinking about revoking Barack's pilot's license, and they are considering putting the web site in Klingon so people won't notice all the editing going on.

* Lied about negotiating with McCain and turning down public funds.

* FISA and telecom immunity ("will filibuster the bill" in Feb, "will vote for the bill" in June).

* Federal funding for faith-based programs ("always supported", although ).

* Pulling out of Iraq ("we will end this war and withdraw all combat troops in 16 months" in Feb, "I will continue to refine my policy, and assess the level of calm in Iraq" in July).

* Union campaign contributions ("special interests" in January, "working people" in February).

This is on top of repainting the Obama spaceship between the 2004 and 2008 campaigns, in a fairly major way (sort of changed the color from Egyptian Blue to a soft powder blue with almost a pinkish tinge, and some bright red racing stripes down the front).

* Cuba ("time to end the embargo" in Jan 2004, "important inducement for change" in August 2007).

* Employers of illegal immigrants ("opposed to a crack down" in March 2004, "have to crack down on these employers" in Jan 2008).

* Decriminalizing marijuana ("support eliminating criminal penalties" in Jan 2004, "oppose decriminalization" in Oct 2007).

So my question is...

Does Charlie Brown support leaving troops in until there is calm in Iraq, funding faith-based programs with federal money, giving immunity to telecom companies and supporting the "FISA capitulation" as the net roots call it?

If not...

Our dear friend Charlie Brown is "Mo' Liberal than Obama".

Lee, you might want to page Todd and get on this. If Placer County voters get wind of this, it could really, really hurt Charlie's campaign badly.

George

You have gone way over the line...

"Meanwhile, back at the Obama Starfleet, we have been swerving to the right or doing barrel rolls so violently that air traffic control is thinking about revoking Barack's pilot's license, and they are considering putting the web site in Klingon so people won't notice all the editing going on."

and...

"This is on top of repainting the Obama spaceship between the 2004 and 2008 campaigns, in a fairly major way (sort of changed the color from Egyptian Blue to a soft powder blue with almost a pinkish tinge, and some bright red racing stripes down the front)."

You are using my political purple prose algorithms. They are my INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. As soon as I get back into town, I am going to get my frivolous lawsuit practitioner on the case.

But if we out of the goodness of our hearts choose not to pursue this matter, it will be like this...

"You're good, kid, but as long as I'm around you're second best. You might as well learn to live with it."

Lancey Howard to the Cincinnati Kid

Lee from Bean and Brew SLC