I am as much in favor of the right to own and maintain firearms as the next guy, but that does not include carrying them concealed on their person. During my thirty-five year career as a law enforcement oficer in Orange County, the only thing that worried me more that a criminal with a gun, was a citizen with a gun. The vast majority are not trained to use a weapon, and haven't a clue about the complex set of rules involved in the use of deadly force. Deadly force is tough enough for Police to deal with these days and departments are constantly training in the use for force continum.

In my opinion, Sheriff Hutchins is doing the right thing in recalling most of the CCW permits so freely handed out by the former Sheriff to his political buddies. After looking at some of the names on the list, I could clearly see that there was no justification for that person to carry a weapon, except for status and ego. Sheriff Brad Gates had a tight policy on the issuance of CCW permits and I don't recall a lot of hue and cry in those days. Hopefully Sheriff Hutchins will reinstitute such a policy where only those people who need to carry guns will be authorized to do so.

During my thirty-five year career as a law enforcement oficer in Orange County, the only thing that worried me more that a criminal with a gun, was a citizen with a gun.

With all due respect, Dr. Rodgers, that is a crazy thing to say.

Ask the average citizen which they would fear more, and I'm sure you would get an entirely different response.

Dr. Pat Rodgers said:
The vast majority are not trained to use a weapon, and haven't a clue about the complex set of rules involved in the use of deadly force. Deadly force is tough enough for Police to deal with these days and departments are constantly training in the use for force continum.

Dr, Rodgers, that simply is NOT true. "The vast majority are not trained to use a weapon"? I don't know what your "source" is for a statement like that, but ALL of the CCW licensees that I know personally, and I know many, are ABSOLUTELY trained and continue to train on a regular basis. This continued training is not even a requirement, they just take the responsibility VERY SERIOUSLY, prompting them to, at their own expense I might add, seek out more advanced knowledge and training. To be "worried (me) more than a criminal with a gun, was a citizen with a gun", is, with all due respect, ludicrous. This is a problem with society in general, there is a lack of understanding and people don’t research issues for themselves. If they did, there would be a better appreciation for the need to allow ordinary citizens, who can demonstrate the qualifications to CCW, to do so.

Dr. Pat.

If you felt you were in more danger from law abiding citizens who carry legally, then you were a poor LEO indeed. Nowhere have statistics shown what you fear. On the contrary counties that have high CCW rates have less crime and less incidents with firearms.

Also your allegation that CCW carriers having less experience with a firearm are unfounded. Studies have shown that a large number of CCW holders actually have more experience and spend more time at the shooting range then a typical officer.

"Hopefully Sheriff Hutchins will reinstitute such a policy where only those people who need to carry guns will be authorized to do so." Then we'll make being a criminal illegal and ALL of society's problems will go away right?

The facts stand, and they contradict EVERYTHING you say. States that have higher rates of issue have less crime while at the same time gin related incidents stay about the same. Couple that with the fact that CCW permit holders have NO history for gun related crimes or convictions.

Your fears were and are completely unfounded, however I notice that you were in OC, and what you say is exactly the kind of groupthink attitude I'd expect from an officer there.

Jubal, thank you for bringing up the point that Sheriff Hutchens is trying to make it seem like Mike Carona was not "following the law". Most counties that issue CCWs deem "personal protection" good enough cause to issue them. Some deem NOTHING as good cause and won't issue at all. The county that Sheriff Hutchens comes from deems good cause as Friends of Leroy (aka Sheriff Baca), celebrities, billionaires, and campaign contributors. Sound familiar?

Dr. Pat Rodgers said "During my thirty-five year career as a law enforcement officer in Orange County, the only thing that worried me more that a criminal with a gun, was a citizen with a gun."

Yes, there are a lot of knuckleheads out there that own guns. But all CCW holders go through training and firearms qualification before they can get their CCW. Some even go through more training and shoot more often than most law enforcement officers. They are well versed in PC 197, justifiable homicide, and hope they never get to learn first hand how that PC works.

And Dr. Rodgers, your memory isn't so good when it comes to the era of Brad Gates as Sheriff. He didn't issue CCWs except to a select few. He was sued, went to court, and guess what... he lost the case. He had to start issuing CCWs. Now the new un-elected Sheriff is headed in the same direction as Sheriff Gates. That was almost 25 years ago. Welcome to the 21st Century Sheriff. You have now brought us back to the year of Big Brother, 1984.

In addition to the 16 hours of CCW training required by the OCSD, I've nearly doubled those training hours by taking courses from Department approved trainers. That's on top of the many hours at the range.

I'd be interested to know, Dr. Rodgers (BTW, thank you for the many years serving our county), why you worry about the citizen with a gun more than the criminal? Is this from contact with CCW holders during performance of your duties (or otherwise), or from observing people during visits to the range?

DOCTOR? PAT RODGERS? WHAT A "WHOOOSSS!" YOU WOULD THINK THAT THIS "GENTLEMAN," AFTER EXCELLENT AND WELL APPRECIATED SERVICE TO THIS COUNTY, AND OUR COUNTRY WOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT BEING AN "ELITIST, HIGHER THAN THOU, IS OUT! IT WENT OUT WITH SHERIFF BRAD GATES, ANOTHER FINE GENTLEMAN OF HIS TIME, BUT LONG GONE NOW! ALSO, LOOK AT FLORIDA AND OTHER STATES THAT ALLOW "CCW," AND SEE HOW CRIME HAS GONE DOWN! IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE MY HUSBAND, OR ONE OF HIS CO-WORKERS, LEAVE AN AIRPLANE UNATTENDED WHEN A THREAT ARRISES, ONLY TO HAVE IT USED AS A "TERRORISTIC WEAPON," AND WHEN "ASKED WHY," THEY REPLY..."WELL, WE DID NOT HAVE THE 'TOOLS' TO PREVENT IT!" A FEW LIGHTER "THREATS" HAVE ALREADY BEEN AVOIDED, JUST BY THE KNOWLEGE OF SOME OF HIS REALLY RICH AND DRUNK "CLIENTS" KNOWING THE PILOTS ARE "ARMED."

"During my thirty-five year career as a law enforcement oficer in Orange County" That narrow it down a little to who it is?

I suggest that Sheriff Hutchens read two documents for insight into this issue:

- The U.S. Constitution, which has no conditions on the right to own and bear arms

- "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott.

Although there are numerous fevered rebuttals of Lott's conclusions, they are made by avowed liberal gun control advocates, and most have been debunked by Lott and other researchers.

Obama conditions his acquiesence to the Supreme Court ruling on handgun ownership by saying he would not act to take away handguns because he doesn't have the votes in Congress to do so! As with his undermining of our freedom speech, he is willing to abbrogate our right to bear arms solely based on his ability to garner enough votes in Congress to do so. (At this point a President Obama and the Dems will have a super-majority in both houses of Congress to subvert the Constitution politically.)

What part of Constitutionally guranteed RIGHT isn't clear to Hutchens or Obama?

If the revocations were limited to the people who were given permits inappropriately - without complete background checks because they were friends of the sheriff - this would make total sense. Instead, the new sheriff feels it necessary to revoke the permits of business owners and other citizens who never met or contributed to the previous sheriff, but that she feels no longer meet her new enhanced criteria for carrying a gun.

So if she's only allowing permits to people she 'thinks' deserve it, isn't that exactly the same favoritism and cronyism that Carona was under such heat for? The same favoritism that cost the county over 2 million dollars in settlement under Sheriff Gates?

The only way to make the system completely FAIR is to apply the same criteria to everyone, and make it clear in advance what that criteria is.

The idea that civilians who think their shooting at targets on the range makes them more adapt than police is what is ludicrous. The use of deadly force in a shoot - don't shoot situation is the type of continuous perishable skills training that only police receive during their careers. This so called "advanced training" that weekend warrior ccw holders might get on their own is again also ludicrous. Yes, it is a true fact of life that ccw holders sometimes are more of a possible hazard to police at work, when trying to do an already dangerous job. There are no absolute stats on ccw permits bringing down crime, again ludicrous. Just ask the state of Minnesota.

I don't think every citizen deserves to carry concealed. I agree that the Sheriff is too restrictive, but I do think that there should be some threat to safety in order to carry, whether it's your line of work (Reserve cop, banker, jeweler, doctor, prosecutor, judge among a few others) or the fact that you are often in dangerous situations. I certainly don't want every yahoo out there toting a gun....

Can one of you law enforcement types please point to some evidence to back up your claims that liberalized CCW policies lead to "every yahoo toting a gun"?

CAPROSECUTOR. EVERY citizen does not get one, if you don't have a good cause and you don't pass a background check then you don't get one. That alone weeds out the "yahoos".

OCSAYS. There are counties out there where some of thier officers, even higher ups, have not seen a shooting range in years. YEARS. Most CCW holders go weekly or at least monthly. While ther are exceptions to the rule on both sides, one can hardly draw a line and say that all CCW holders don't know how to use their weapon. As for being able to pull the trigger, if someone was threatening my life or my family's life there really wouldn't be much inner turmoil on what I would do.

I know lots of LEOs and I've never heard one say that a CCW holder got in the way, made them feel threatened, or made a situation more dangerous. On the contrary, I've heard stories of CCW holders saving an officer's life.

I do understand where you are comming from though, if all you see us as are "weekend warriors" then you obviously are off base to begin with. We do not deter crime or try to, it's not our job. Our weapon is hidden and stays that way, nobody knows we have it, as the way it should be.

Anyone that believes that CCW holders make a LEO's job more dangerous or in the alternative, that citizens should not carry guns, legally, is out of touch and needs to spend some real time in a citizen/LEO situation. Of all the LEO I have known or interacted with, of all the RAL's I have been on, and of all the reading I have done on the subject, I have never read a supported study or heard from any LEO that they fear CCW holder's. Doc, you are full of hot LA County air. (OCSAYS, too)

I can't STAND seeing this APPOINTED, UNELECTED Sheriff stating that this is "the law." It's not "the law." This is HER "law" which is creating a "class" of people who are being given a special privilege that's not available to the rest of the law-abiding public, rather only to public officials. That's just wrong. Just my .02.

My wife and I were attacked with deadly force. I trained and applied for my CCW permit in Orange County. I don't know or have contributed to Corona. My renewal was denied two months ago.

Who has a better "good cause" than people that have been attacked with intent to kill?

If it, along with many other "good cause" reasons was good enough before, what constitutes "good cause" now?

This political move by Hutchins is beyond anything reasonable. She should be taken out of office and fired.

I'm moving to Colorado or Idaho with my business. They are two of the over 40 states I still maintain CCW permits.

Every police office I've spoken with about my CCW has commented that they are pleased to know they have good citizens out on the streets that have the ability to back them up if they are outnumbered.