so, its OK to deny communion because of someone's political beliefs? Fine, make the church pay taxes then too

In no way, shape or form is it denying someone Communion based on their political beliefs, Dan.

As a practicing catholic, I did not make communion with my pastor, or my bishop, I made a holy communion with my god.

That relationship is not about political positions, or the thoughts of one man, other than myself. Please don't place your personal beliefs about communion upon another catholic, in this case Sen. Biden.

Please remember tolerance, forgiveness, acceptance of others is the foundation of Catholosism.

With all due respect, just...asking, you need to repeat catechism, because your rendering of Catholicism is much closer to modern mainline Protestantism. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"It is in the Eucharistic cult or in the Eucharistic assembly of the faithful that priests exercise in a supreme degree their sacred office. There, acting in the Person of Christ and proclaiming His mystery, they unite the votive offerings of the faithful to the sacrifice of Christ, their Head, and in the sacrifice of the Mass they make present again and apply, until the coming of the Lord, the unique sacrifice of the New Testament, that namely of Christ offering Himself once and for all a spotless Victim to the Father. From this unique sacrifice their whole priestly ministry draws its strength."

Sen. Biden, by virtue of his office, is public in his sin of materially facilitating the evil of abortion. When someone like a Sen. Biden receives Communion, in full view of his fellow Catholics, it sends a clear signal that the Church is not serious in its teaching and there is no real consequence to facilitating abortion.

Please don't place your personal beliefs about communion upon another catholic, in this case Sen. Biden.

These are not my "personal beliefs" about Communion. I refer you again to Archbishop Chaput, among others. If you'd like to pit your grasp of Catholicism against his, by all means. But the Church has been very clear about reception of Communion in such circumstances.

Please remember tolerance, forgiveness, acceptance of others is the foundation of Catholosism.

Forgiveness is at the heart of Christ's sacrifice, but it is bound up with repentance and the resolution to try to live Christ's will, not our own. Your formulation twists Christ into some kind of do-your-own-thing hippie.

Recall that even Christ, when He gave forgiveness, said to the woman, "Go and SIN NO MORE." Forgiveness is not an eraser wiping clean one's slate. Forgivesness in the Catholic tradition means an expiation of one's sins, requiring a heartfelt sincerity that it won't happen again.

Jubal is right - if you choose to profess yourself as a "devout Catholic" (as Sen Biden has), then you have to follow the tenents of the Church.

I am pre-Vatican II Catholic and am stauchly against abortion and the death penalty. I don't rail against the the many self-described devout Catholics who don't share my view on the sanctity of life. I pray for them and do not challenge their receipt of Communion. I hold these views, despite being part of a church that has often times not acted according to its own teachings.

I'm also a Catholic that has the freewill to make his own decisions, even when those decisions run counter to the teachings of various authority figures that are employed by the Church. I consider the opinions of the Pope, and some of the archbishops, but ultimately, I do my own thinking (yes, a gift from God that does not require that I adhere to Archbishop Chaput's understanding of Catholicsm).

Mr. Biden too has the gift of freewill. I pray that he uses it well. I also pray that John McCain and his VP choice reconsider their support of the death penalty.

Erun:

Forgive me, but you don't sound like a pre-Vatican II type.

I'm not "railing" against Catholics who don't "share my view on the sanctity of life." It's not my view or your view, it's the Church's view. We can utilize our free will and adhere to it or not, but choices entail consequences. One can't simply custom design Catholicism to suit one's personal inclinations, Erun.

Why confuse intellectual honesty with ideological consistency?

Jubal:

Do you support the death penalty?

Jubal:

Did you support the unnecessary, unprovoked invasion of Iraq, which the Pope deemed an unjust war?

(Mater Dei 1978)

Oh Vern, enough with that straw man.

Matt -- Biden was elected to uphold the law for all - Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims et al. He put his hand on the Bible and swore an oath to the constitution. Not the other way around. Your argument seems to suggest that Catholics should heed the word of the Pope before the President. This is the sort of thing JFK had to overcome in 1960.

Curious how John McCain, a man who committed adultry many times against his first wife and supports the, what did Vern say, oh, *unjust war* in Iraq, would have more trouble with devout Christians than Biden.

Faith is personal between a person and God. If churches want to blur the line and become politically active, they can pay taxes for the ability to do so.

Do you support the death penalty?

In principle, yes. And in case you think you've caught me in some sort of trap, Church doctrine allows for the death penalty.

for all who are discussing here, please go to "periodica de re canonica" about canon law # 915..."The discipline regarding the denial of Holy Communion to those obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin." Specifically you, it is both a matter of an examination of conscience and a responsibility to the minister of communion to withhold Eucharist.

You can find it at http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm

Dan:

Your argument suffers from a false premise. No one is asking Biden not to uphold the law for all. All legislators cast votes based upon their beliefs and conscience. I never hear the Left complain when Catholic legislators cite their religious beliefs in supporting government programs for the poor.

The rules go for Biden that go for any Catholic. The corollary to your argument is that Biden should not be denied Communion due to his public, willful violation of Church doctrine on abortion (obstinately persisting in a grave sin), while similarly obstinate Joe Catholic would be denied Communion (that is, the priest of Eucharistic minister take their duty seriously).

The fact of the matter is that the Democrats only cry foul about this because it exposes a vulnerability: their cognitive dissonance about religion and politics. As in most things, they are liberally indecisive about questions of moral import.

It's the Archbishop's right - and duty - to deny Biden communion based on Biden's professed support for abortion. Just as it's Senator Biden's right to propose a bill in Congress taxing religious property. (The Democrat Party is more than welcome to make church taxation a part of their party platform, therefore making it into a sort of duty for Senator Biden pursue legislation on the matter. Until such a time, however, it remains simply a right of Senator Biden's.)

Dan, I do not appreciate the "friendly fire." How is Jubal supporting an unjust war, or capital punishment, any kind of straw man? He's a Cafeteria Catholic like any other.

Just like me I suppose.

And the always-dependable pretentious verbiage from Matt. "Intellectual dishonesty." How is that different from simple dishonesty?

Sigh. Monarchs.

Were you asleep in religion class, Vern?

Church doctrine permits the death penalty in certain circumstances, and you might recall the just war teaching.

But Church doctrine, under no circumstance, permits direct abortion.

I am very consistent.

And the always-dependable pretentious verbiage from Matt.

Vern, I don't come close to you in the verbiage-for-the-sake-of verbiage class.

"Intellectual dishonesty." How is that different from simple dishonesty?

It's a more grown-up kind of dishonesty, Vern. Like politician arguing positions they know to be untrue.

As opposed to simple dishonesty, like seeing a small child steal a cookie and asking them if they just took that cookie, to which they respond, "No, I didn't."

Of course, I omitted in my previous comment a more cynical reading of "Catholic" Democrats' maintained association with the church: it's politically expedient, the Catholic votes are too valuable to give up.

Of course what Pelosi said is perfectly correct. Thinking on when human life begins is not settled in the Catholic church, although the hierarchy has stood by its drastic and contra-medical assessment that it begins at conception for nearly a century and a half now (she was wrong about that alone--she got the timescale at around 50 years).

I've discussed this at more length in a posting here:

http://weblog.xanga.com/tonysidaway/672422873/nancy-pelosi-is-right-on-the-history-of-catholic-thinking-on-when-human-life-begins.html