'I don't agree with her CCW policy, but I don't think it matters much to the great mass of OC voters.'

Sad, isn't it? This is the first comment on the thread an hour and a half after you posted it. Where's the outrage?!

I admit, I like Hutchens, but her logic is extraordinarily faulty in this case.

SMS

I find it interesting that Hutchens, like Bates, Nguyen and Moorlach, feel uncomfortable (unsure?) enough about their decisions (appointments?) that they feel the need to keep defending them. Hutchens may be a very nice person, which I have heard she is, but that does not make her a good Sheriff-Coroner. She keeps making rookie mistakes (many of which have been kept from the news.) How's that 120-day plan coming along, by the way?

Sad, isn't it? This is the first comment on the thread an hour and a half after you posted it. Where's the outrage?!

Actually, there is a lot of outrage, however, it's being voiced on/in other forums.

Rumor has it that OCCCWS is a start up grow that plans on lobbying heavily against Hutchens in 2010 and for a pro-CCW candidate.

If your going to list something, list the whole thing.

http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements-orange-county/5709-calccw-forum-counsel-bruce-colodny.html

Jubal, take the phone call from somebody you don't know shortly. . . .

"The great mass of OC voters" don't actually turn out in a great mass. Sheriff elections aren't generally a big draw for "the mass" anyway, unless there is a cause, as when Mike Carona was first elected. There are hundreds of disgruntled, law-abiding CCW holders who are LOSING their permits because of a NEW policy that fixed NOTHING. Hundreds who will do an effective job of rallying their voting and campaign contributing family members and friends, along with gun-friendly, conservative groups who care about defending themselves and their families. Hundreds can easily multiply into thousands who DO NOT WANT ORANGE COUNTY TO BE POLICED AND GOVERNED LIKE LOS ANGELES COUNTY! How many times does it need to be said?

Sign me up, in fact I work with about 15 people who didn't know about the CCW program till it hit the news and she killed it..

If Sheriff Hutchens commits some major blunders?

I don't see why a PAC would form unless she has. It's going to be some interesting times coming soon to Orange County. The voters do care about CCWs as well as other issues since most OC citizens don't live in a contract city patrolled by OCSD.

Still waters run deep. 2010 is far away enough for a groundswell of voters to accumulate and take action. And if they have money, watch out. CCW issues is what helped Carona get elected. It is NOT what ruined him (pending a Trial of course).

Almost nobody votes for Sheriff. Almost everyone goes to vote for something specific and skips right over the Sheriff box on the ballot. With that it mind the pro-gun community in OC could conceivably mobilize enough of their own to defeat her.

When it comes down to it, CCW is really the only thing that the Sheriff's Dept does that would influence an election and it is the Achilles Heel of an anti-CCW Sheriff. In past OC elections, the pro-CCW candidate got 70% of the vote!!!

We will see in 2010 if her anti ccw, anti-American policies will have an impact. Most las abiding, hard working tax paying individuals don't appreciate it much when they are deemed not-trustworthy by their elected officials (in this case appointed!).
I say the OC pro gun groups can easily replace Hutchens with a pro ccw candidate. Ever looked at the NRA member numbers in OC? Ever thought about how deep their pockets are? Same is true with most ccw holders. And then we have the PSRs, too. Before you know it things will get really interesting.

Don't laugh to soon Leroy Baca. The game ain't over yet.

It's amazing to me that anyone would want to restrict CCWs. In my neighborhood, my best guess is that about a third of the residents own firearms. No one that I know of has a CCW besides myself. That concerns me. If, on the other hand, they had CCWs I would then be assured that they completed safety and proficiency training, had clear DOJ records, legal firearms that were in proper working condition and knew how to safely own them. I wish all handgun owners had CCWs whether chose to ever carry or not...it would be a MUCH safer community.

A previous poster alluded to the "Single Issue Voter". A voter who feels so strongly about a single issue that, regardless of the depth and breadth of a political platform, it is that one issue that determines how that person votes.

Sheriff Hutchens performance, decisions, and actions regarding CCW, as well as other issues, has very likely created a pool of single issue voters, a pool that grows as each day passes. Regardless of how well she performs in other areas, it will be her handling of the Orange County CCW program that will utimately determine whether she is allowed to remain as Orange County Sheriff.

The value and benefits of a strong, fair, and well managed CCW program that allows any citizen who has passed a background investigation and completed an approved training program to carry a concealed firearm has been proven time and time again throughout the United States and in many California Counties as well.

Citizens with CCWs are not criminals. They are they people the real criminals fear the most because they never know if the person they have chosen as their next victim is armed or not.

People who choose to not carry a firearm also benefit from CCW holders because the criminals now have to consider the possibility that they are armed before attempting to victimize them. The uncertainty created in the mind of criminals by a large number of potentially armed targets may make them consider a different target.

As more and more citizens get a CCW and carry a firearm for personal protection, the criminals will eventually migrate to a different city with stricter gun control laws and fewer CCWs because they know their potential victims are less likely to be able to defend themselves against attack.

The high violent crime rates in cities with strict gun control laws and fewer CCWs, such as Los Angelas and San Francisco clearly support the reality that a large number of legally armed citizens reduces crime.

Having said all this, it is also important to realize that Sheriff Hutchens was appointed by the Orange County Board of Supervisors, against the popular wishes of the people they are supposed to represent. They are as much to blame, if not more so, than Sandra Hutchens herself.

Just as the Single Issue Voters will choose a new Sheriff in 2010, so to will they choose a new Board of Supervisors when they come up for reelection. That this will happen is a certainty if Sandra Hutchens and the Board of Supervisors do not recognize that they are in place to serve the people of Orange County. They work for you. You do not work for them.

What part of "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" does Sandra Hutchens not understand? I'm a single woman and it's a scary world out there with a lot of criminals that are bigger and stronger than I am, and Sandra Hutchens wants to create a county of helpless victims unable to fight back. Take a look at the crime rate in LA County, where Hutchens was formerly employed! Restrictive CCW policies don't prevent crime in LA County, so why would she think those policies would be good for Orange County?

Thanks to the actions of Sandra Hutchens, in the election in 2010, I am now a single issue voter. I want a sheriff who respects our constitution and our Supreme Court.

I'm a woman, a gun owner, AND I VOTE.

WHAT PART OF "FREEDOMS WITH RESPONSIBILITES" AND THE FACT THAT THE PSR AND CCW PROGRAMS HAVE WORKED WELL OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, DON'T THE SHERIFF'S ADVISORS UNDERSTAND? YES, I DO BLAME MS. HUTCHENS, BUT ALSO HER ADVISORS FOR NOT ASKING THE "ADVISORY COUNCIL" AND OTHER FINE SOURCES HE HAS AT HER DISPOSAL. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALTHOUGH SHE IS A VERY NICE PERSON, SHE IS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON FOR THE "JOB" WHEN IT COMES TO 2010. LA DOES NOT BELONG IN THE OC. THAT IS WHY CRIME IS LESS HERE! OH! FORGOT...DID NOT MIKE CORONA CHANGE THE "BADGE" A NUMBER OF YEARS BACK TO SATISFY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DECISION? DID NOT MIKE CORONA USE THE PROPER FORMS FOR CCW AND STILL WAS ABLE TO ISSUE WITHIN THE CALIFORNIA LAWS? WHERE IS THE PROBLEM NOW?

BEST REGARDS.

What really bothers me is Sheriff Hutchens' continual references to industry standards and complying with the law. Perhaps she thinks that the average voter/citizen will go along with that. It has fallen to us to educate those voters, and we pledge to do so. There is absolutely nothing in the state laws, the Penal Code, or any kind of industry standards (WHAT industry??) that require her to implement and restrict Orange County's CCW program the way that she has. Yes, it is her right as Sheriff to do it "her" way (aside from some of her implementation that is questionably against the very laws that she cites), but she shouldn't think that we are all foolish enough to believe that her stance is anything but Los Angeles elitist "we know what's best for you people better than you do" pablum. And the BOS couldn't care LESS about what the voters want. It is painfully obvious they feel just the way she does. As an allegedly free citizen of California and the United States, I am disgusted and mortified to see this coming to pass.

What is painfully obvious is that the Board of Supervisors are on a power trip. Morelach has no interest but furthering his own self interests. This is an obvious fact based on their choice to appoint a sheriff who would be answerable ONLY to them, and not the voters of this county.

Great Video's.

The 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee CCW, per se, but it does recognize the pre-existing right to self protection, and if I remember correctly, is a guarantee against abuse from oppressive government.

Maybe that's what concerns Morelach and Hutchens?

Sandra has continued to degrade two of the most successful programs in OC. PSR and CCW. What is she thinking?? And who supported this liberal for Sheriff? She may have served her career in LA County, but she represents OC County. Why 3 BOS Supervisors appointed an anti conservitive Sheriff is becoming the larger question. Do they think we will not become active in supporting a new candidate for Sheriff who understands and represents our county? Unbelieveable..

Ms. Hutchens and her LASD cronies who now run the Orange County Sheriff's Department have brought disgrace to the department at the behest of the Orange County Board of Supervisors. It is well known that Supervisor Moorlach has an irrational fear of guns and an unhealthy view of gun owners (see his comments about "gun racks" during his interview with San Bernardino County Undersheriff Richard Beemer during the interview process). It's also well known that Moorlach uses closed sessions and strongarm tactics to get his way when the chips are down. Ms. Hutchens was APPOINTED to the office exactly because she would be a lapdog for the OC Board of Supervisors, specifically John Moorlach, who fear a powerful and educated citizenry. This goes a long way in explaining why, with all of the problems facing the OCSD, the first two issues Ms. Hutchens chose to tackle were the two issues that helped to empower the residents of Orange County: CCW and PSR. Strip the residents of their power first, and then you can feel free to impose whatever "standards" you wish later on. It's a bold move on the part of the OC Supervisors and Ms. Hutchens, but a short-sighted one. See we're a powerful bunch, and we're patient. 2010 is right around the corner and Ms. Hutchens will be quietly shown the door. Then comes 2012, when Moorlach, Nguyen, and Campbell get their due.

The OC Board of Supervisors are clearly on a power trip. They appointed someone from Los Angles who is clearly making some rookie mistakes. That same "someone" also has appointed to her top command staff, people from the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office. These people don't know Orange County and the surely don't know the OCSD.

As to the whole CCW issue, there is no "Industry Standard" in California for issuance. Many CCW's are issued in many other counties under simply "Personal Protection" as good cause. In at least a couple counties, effectively, you can be under credible, verified death threats and still not get a CCW. What Sheriff Hutchens did was take a system that was working and non-political and broke it. She politicized it. She has a ton of other things on her plate that should be more important for her to get to, and this was one of the first things she dug into.

Retired Sheriff Carona may be under idictment for some stuff... but at least he took a broken system and fixed it so that, quite literally, anyone with good cause, and could pass the training and pass a background check could get a CCW... and never pay more than the established fees or contribute to his campaign. With Sheriff Carona, the process appeared to be simple, straightforward, and fair. Now a few hundred people who carried their pistols daily without incident or trouble can no longer do so.

Those people that got their CCW's with a "Personal Protection" as good cause from any of the many counties that recognize that as good cause can carry in Orange County. Your friend, neighbor, girl down the street, the car mechanic, or dentist who did have a CCW no longer can.

OCCCWS is a group I definitely will support. I'm a handicapped individual who was able to get a CCW permit under Mike Carona. I did not buy my permit with a large campaign donation. I'm just one of those Ordinary California Citizens. Now, under SHEriff Hutchens, I don't have good cause. I guess I need to take a beating, and hope I survive it, before SHEriff Hutchens feels that I deserve to have the ability to defend myself -- maybe not even then.

Single issue voter? You bet I am. Quite frankly, nothing that the Sheriff's department does, except handle the issuing of CCW licenses has any impact on me.

I am a disabled veteran and I also have a CCW.

Like all CCW holders, I am a firm advocate of the principle of avoidance of situations, which could lead to incidents of violence.

Like all CCW holders, I am also a firm believer in effecting a prompt disengagement and calling the police to deal with the situation.

Like all CCW holders, I do believe in the use of the minimum effective level of force necessary to neutralize the attack.

Like all CCW holders, I feel that the use of deadly force is and always should be the option of last resort.

Like all CCW holders, I believe that I make every effort to follow the principle of avoiding potentially violent situations in my personal life.

Like all CCW holders, I am well trained and work hard to keep my skills sharp and honed, while simultaneously praying I never need to employ these skills.

The most profound effect my disability has had on me is in my ability to effectively disengage should I become targeted for violence. My ability to “Run Away” is compromised and I may be forced to stand my ground should my family or I become targeted for violence.

The disabled are among the prowdest and most productive members of society. They are also among the most vulnerable to being victimized. Their compromised ability to run away or defend themselves, makes them easy targets for criminals.

I have made the protection of myself and my loved ones my personal responsibility. I will not be a victim and I will do whatever I can, to ensure that those I care about do not become victims either.

To that end, I am no different than any other law abiding citizen. We all have the right to self protection. Yet Sheriff Hutchens and the Board of Supervisors do not agree.

Sandra Hutchens continues to say, “I am following California Law” whenever OC residents call out her mistakes. Well Sandra, Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood, and San Bernardino County Sheriff Gary Penrod are also following California Law and issuing CCW permits for personal protection. Why don’t you call these two Sheriff’s and find out if the law your following is the same as theirs.

My CCW will probably not be renewed because I am not a Judge nor do I carry bags full of cash or diamonds. What I have decided to do is donate the cost of CCW fees (including fingerprinting and firearms training) to OCCCWS when they start collecting donations.

I'm by no means a Moorlach fan but I believe he, like the rest of us, were hoodwinked by Hutchen's response to the CCW question. Moorlach said one reason he voted for her was her CCW stance. To quote him, he said: I felt she had a better position on carrying concealed weapons. Her approach more closely mirrored the current policies and legal standards, which are working well.

She gave the answer which would be most palatable...and now that she's in charge, she's changing a system that was working fine.

I'm by no means a Moorlach fan but I believe he, like the rest of us, were hoodwinked by Hutchen's response to the CCW question. Moorlach said one reason he voted for her was her CCW stance. To quote him, he said: I felt she had a better position on carrying concealed weapons. Her approach more closely mirrored the current policies and legal standards, which are working well.

She gave the answer which would be most palatable...and now that she's in charge, she's changing a system that was working fine.

OC IN THE KNOW: Moorlach can say anything he wants to do after the fact, with no accountability for his decision to firmly support Hutchens. Fact is, if he wanted a pro-CCW Sheriff he had plenty to choose from and he chose the one who was plainly not that. Bill Hunt and Jack Anderson are both pro-CCW, and both would have made better Sheriffs than has Hutchens. Moorlach is an anti-gun, power hungry liberal and he wanted someone in place that he could push around that would deck the halls to his liking. Well, he got what he wanted. The question now is, what treatment will his constituents in the 1st district give him come 2012?

Correction, "... his constituents in the 2nd district ..." It's getting late. The point remains the same.

Since the new Sheriff Hutchens was appointed the department has been in turmoil. She has attempted to 'FIX' problems that simply do not exist. The CCW and PSR programs have been running along just fine, while the real issues have suffered from lack of attention.

The board of supervisors neglected to listen to the voters and appointed a new sheriff who has no real ability to lead the department in the direction that the county needs She has neglected the jailing issues while coming close to destroying two highly successful programs that have made the citizens in OC safer and save them lot's of overtime money in sheriff department overtime.

It is time for the BOS to look into this issue and attempt of direct this appointee in the right direction.

spc

I'm with you Steadyrock. My point is that the energies should be directed towards Hutchens, not splitting the forces (or $$) by dragging Moorlach into it at this time. You guys are a bit late to this blog, but if you look back in the archives you'll see that his comments about why he appointed her were made just days, if not hours after the appointment, before she gave a hint of what was to come.

NO ONE was gonna get appointed based on solely their CCW stance...to think otherwise is foolish.

I agree with you about Anderson and Hunt.

Moorlach is anything but a liberal...

The sad truth is that Moorlach did not care either way about the CCW issue. His pupose was twofold: 1) Pick a sheriff he knew he could manipulate and 2) Pick a sheriff whose questionable leadership abilities would keep the rest of the department dysfunctional. He has absolutely nothing to gain by fighting a happy, strong OCSD. Keeping them miserable and at odds with him and the board keeps his name in the papers.

I think you'll see that a bunch of money and a group of dedicated people are going to make a huge impact on a local Sheriff race who is turning Orange County into LA County South!

Maybe CCW isn't a huge issue with most voters, but it's just one blunder and one example of her LA South philosophy. There are many more examples and more examples to come.

Is this LA County with a number of shootings each week. No! How many CCW holders have been involved in shootings or criminal activities? None that I am aware of. Sheriff Hutchens should get her priorities straight. CCWs isn't one of them.

It's ironic, isn't it? Although the stink about Carona's favoritism in issuing CCWs was mostly false, given that his issuance was rather broad and permissive, the new sheriff seems to think the best way to have the appearance of fairness is to make the policy more restrictive and elitist.

Does that make sense to ANYONE?

Sheriff's elections are often won by a couple hundred votes in this county, and this is an issue that has 1,500 or more voters with strong feelings about it.

That sounds like a re-election issue to me, sure enough.

Irony said:
It's ironic, isn't it? Although the stink about Carona's favoritism in issuing CCWs was mostly false, given that his issuance was rather broad and permissive, the new sheriff seems to think the best way to have the appearance of fairness is to make the policy more restrictive and elitist.

Does that make sense to ANYONE?
-----------------------------------------------------------
It makes sense to the elitist liberals who seem to be trying to take over Orange County.
Just look at the liberal media's history on the 2nd Amendment. They kept telling people for 75 years the party line, "it's not an individual right". It is taught in the public schools and now look how many people actually believe it. We even have 4 Supreme Court Justices who believe the lie.
You tell a lie often enough and yes, people do believe it.

All of us who believe in individual liberty and self reliance were very pleased at the Heller decision, and heartened that freedom might again be within reach even in heavily policed and regulated place like California. A government that does not trust its citizens is not worthy to govern, and the new Orange County Sheriff represents all the worst things that Californians have learned to expect from its political leadership. I wish this new PAC and its organizers and volunteers the best of luck in this struggle, and pledge my own help in this cause.

As a recent CCW holder (4 years) and an avid shooter, I find the CCW policy of Hutchens’s to be tip of the "Elitist" iceberg for OC firearms owners. Good Cause statements don't matter anymore to Hutchens. As a disabled American, my situation matters nothing to Hutchens’s restrictive CCW issuance policy. If anyone here thinks that carrying over $100,000.00 in cash or Diamonds for business related purposes matters to Hutchens, then think twice. It is not uncommon that I carry/transport in excess of $100,000.00 for my business, but it made no difference to Sheriff Hutchens. We must start preparing to remove her and anyone associated with her by collecting our resources and getting the word out now. She does not care about the safety of Law Biding people.

I carry a copy of the constitution as amended everywhere I go. The 2nd amendment is all I will show if some liberal asks me if I am "licensed to carry a firearm."

I am in a pro-CCW state, but see the act of bowing down to the CCW test as proclaiming that the Constitution is not enough.

The tax maggots must be listening to radio station W-R-O-N-G. The constitution is very clear on this, as shown by Heller vs. Washington, D.C.