"The announcement that Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren will host Presidential candidates John McCain and Barrack Obama next month seemed to stir up a lot of controversy."

It has? Where?

"...Pastor Rick and modern evangelicals preach a gospel of personal salvation that is firmly rooted in the Biblical text, and that encourages individual, rather than state action and government power."

Has Warren spoken out against war? War, after all, is the ultimate expression of government power.

If Warren has spoken out against war, that would contrast sharply with McCain (who wants to stay the course in Iraq) and Obama (who wants troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan).

From a political perspective, Warren has managed to re-invent himself and his church over the past few years. The implication that his church is more closely aligned with McCain simply because it is less aligned with Obama seems to be...well, more of the same kind of mindless crap that we've come to expect on this site.

You seem to have forgotten that Obama and Warren have shared the Saddleback alter before and the Illinois senator was warmly received by the Saddleback crowd.

But what you've conveniently left out is Senator McCain's faith. Raised Episcopalian, the Arizona senator attends a Baptist megachurch in Phoenix. He is not baptized, He rarely talks of his faith. He open sought endorsements from Pastors Hagee and Parsley, and then threw both of them under the bus.

Of the two, Obama is the candidate who is far more religious.

⟩⟩⟩...Pastor Rick launched a Global PEACE Plan to combat AIDS in Africa. The Global PEACE Plan is funded entirely by Saddleback member contributions, and staffed by church volunteers. The Global PEACE Plan represents genuine compassion, based on voluntary contributions.
These genuine acts of compassion stand in stark contrast to the phony compassion of the Left that Obama represents. Obama and the Left confuse genuine compassion (members of society voluntarily giving of themselves) with government coercion and phony compassion (simply showing up at the voting booth).⟨⟨⟨

Ummmm...you mean government coercion and phony compassion like Bush's plan to spend 15 billion taxpayer dollars to fight AIDS in Africa?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hivaids/

("Oh, that smell? It's Republican hypocrisy, fresh out of the neocon oven.")

*** Ummmm...you mean government coercion and phony compassion like Bush's plan to spend 15 billion taxpayer dollars to fight AIDS in Africa? ***

OWNED.

It would be nice to see Bob Barr invited to speak at this event. But I won't hold my breath.

Mark, it is nice to see you part of the Red County Blog pen!

On, another topic, since you follow education closely, did anything of interest come from McCain speaking at the NAACP the other day? I just don't understand the hostility towards vouchers.

Of the two, Obama is the candidate who is far more religious.

And he was paying such close attention in church for 20 years that he was astounded to discover his pastor was a raving racist.

And while we're on the subject of "throwing under the bus", Dan:

And a few weeks after saying he could no more disown his pastor than disown his grandmother...he disowned his pastor.

Obama's grandma must be nervous.

Observer,
Controversy? Take a look at the messages posted in today's OCR.

I never said Saddleback (which I attend, by the way) is more closely aligned with McCain. (I am neither a McCainiac nor a Bush-defender.) The Saddleback congregation includes many people from both sides of the aisle.

Dan,
As Pastor Rick said in an email this morning, "Both men have been friends of mine since before either decided to run for president. (You don't have to agree on everything to be friends with someone.)"

Obama is far more religious? That's not my place to judge. I know that many Christians (including myself) find the comments of his former pastor deeply troubling. (The Oprah disagreed and left that church.) And some have argued that his interest in religion was motivated solely by his needs as a political organizer.

Mr. Whipple,
The phony compassion of the Left is claiming to care (but only enough to vote) and then expecting someone else to pay for it. The proper role of government is to protect people and property, which arguably includes public health (e.g., AIDS).

But, whatever the case, coercion is the very essence of government (reminding one of the line in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "Help! Help! I'm being repressed. Come see the violence inherent in the system!")

The problem with the Left is that they expect only "the rich" to pay for their "compassion". Compassion means giving of yourself, not coercing others to do so on your behalf.

Andy,
Good to hear from you, also. I had written a post about McCain and school vouchers, but had trouble logging into Red County from the
court house (and then felt that Steve Chapman had said much of the same things in his syndicated article published earlier this week).

Mark,

I agree with everything you wrote in your response. How, exactly, does that answer the inherent double-standard of your praising Saddleback for their voluntary AIDS relief program and (conveniently) ignoring a Republican president doing the very thing you castigate Obama for: Spending taxpayer dollars in an involuntary program?

I agree with you that Saddleback's program is a wonderful thing. As a libertarian Republican I would like to see more of this. But the so-called "Republican" occupant of the White House hasn't acted like one since at least September 12th, 2001.

"I never said Saddleback (which I attend, by the way) is more closely aligned with McCain."

Neither did I. Re-read the post.

"The Saddleback congregation includes many people from both sides of the aisle."

Wow! Now that's diversity!

Matt --
I believe the grandmother Obama reference has passed on; I think the one in Africa is still alive.

Mark and Matt --
can either of you control the words your pastor says? And what do you do if they say something really outrageous? Do you keep going? Matt, you still go to Mass every Sunday in spite of the cover ups and lies told by the archdioscese on the child sexual abuse scandal.

And Mark, I believe Obama, like McCain, has condemned the statements of Rev. Wright as McCain comdemned the statements of Pastors Hagee and Parsley. Mark, yyour post seems to imply that those of us on the left aren't as religious and that we favor secularism over faith. And then you tried ttotie this claim to Obama. Neither claims true.

I submit faith is a personal thing. I think it means far more to Obama than it does to McCain. If it wa, why ins't McCain baptised?

If both Presidential (presumed) candidates are going to be in OC at the same time, wouldn't one think it would be a grand opportunity to have the University of California at Irvine host them for a debate? UCI has a couple of huge facilities that would be great venues for this. It could do a lot to bolster up the UCI image and gain national recognition for OC's University.

It might also make Calfornians think they matter in this presidential election....

Mr Whipple,
I think we agree. Bush is worthy of criticism for his big government spending. His Presidency lacked a coherent philosophy other than the growth of government and executive power.

Dan,
While the left includes many people of genuine faith, the left seems to confuse society (a great good) with government (a necessary evil) to the detriment of society and private institutions where individuals can voluntarily address many of the world's ills. Europe stands as an example of how the growth of the socialist state chills charitable giving and is hostile to religion.

With regards to your other point, if one disagrees strongly enough with the your pastor or church policies or practices, one can leave that church.