"There must have been a serious beat-down in someone's woodshed between that statement and last night's vote."

Does Curt Pringle's name come to mind? But seriously, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Disney runs that city? Everyone just needs to get used to it. It will never change no matter who is on that city council.

Jubal makes a good point about Harry. Why would anyone ever trust him after he made those quotes then turned around and voted the other way?

Harry Sidhu is more ambitious than he is principled... big surprise.

Anon 4:13,

Yeah, I never would have guessed when he decided to attempt the leap from city council to state senate.

Hey Matt = Jubal,

Why don't you be honest and say that as being a consultant for SunCal - Harry Sidhu's desicion to save the city $250,000 was made against your personal interest, and, therefore, you're all mad at Harry Sidhu for that.

OC Register reports: "During the past four months, liens, lawsuits and land repossessions have been piling up against SunCal Companies, the family-run business that's behind such developments as Marblehead Coastal in San Clemente and the failed attempt to build 1,500 homes in the Disney resort." Here's a link: http://www.ocregister.com/money/suncal-land-homes-1992424-company-bill

I wonder if you're getting paid now or you too have to file a lien against SunCal to get your check for the work you've done for them.

I respect and support Harry Sidhu's decision to take a stand to save $250,000 for the city and taxpayers.

Oh, I did not know Jubal was working for SunCal, but that’s actually true. I found he admitted it at http://theliberaloc.com/2007/08/25/blogger-quits-county-commission/

That explains why he is so anti-Harry in all of his posts.

Shame on Jubal.

What?!? There are biased people on the Internet? =)

I'd be curious to hear what Sidhu's explanation on this is since it is quite a reversal.

Matt, for someone who included himself as one of the 40 most influential people in the OC, you sure are clueless about Anaheim. The vote by the Anaheim City Council actually gave all the voters of Anaheim the right to vote on any zoning change within the resort zone.

The Anaheim Resort is one of three unique zones in our nation (WDW, Mall of American and the Anaheim Resort Zone) and if it takes special rules to protect the integrity of the Anaheim Resort Zone, then yes, we should have special rules for such a small area that provides more than 50% of of our tax revenues.

The voters of Anaheim should have the right to control the future of our tax base and to protect us from future city councils who feel that they have some god given right to change the zoning without some system of checks and balance. (The planning commission had voted 5-0 to reject the Suncal project)

The SOAR initiative has given the voters this ability to either aggree or disagree with any zoning change in the resort zone. Matt, I sure hope that you are not against our right to VOTE for or against changes to OUR resort zone????

Hmmm... word is the polls said this measure would've passed with 70% of the vote. If that's true, then Sidhu has a "point" about saving about saving tax payer money.

Come on Matt, Harry explained himself very ably in his comments during discussion. The people of Anaheim retain the right to vote through the adoption of the Initiative. We now have the right to vote on the ill-fated schemes like that of your former employer. In the past, we had NO voice thanks to the sold-old three Council members who got in bed with the wrong developer. Awfully glad Disney stepped in to back SOAR and stop SunCal or we would be among the many projects facing SunCal’s foreclosure sales. Harry did the right thing and looked out for the people of Anaheim. I always liked Harry, but I will absolutely be campaigning for him now. Harry stood up to the political pressure and did the right thing. Thank you Harry Sidhu! Anaheim is facing massive budget cuts, since the ONLY income flow in town that is performing at or above expectations is the Resort TOT. Property tax and sales tax are off, the State is stiffing us, now more than ever we need to both protect the Resort TOT and save the cost of what was essentially an unopposed election. Let’s face it, nobody was campaigning against SOAR anymore. Diane went away, SunCal is facing complete ruin, the only argument filed against was by the lunatic fringe who filed a rebuttal only because “nobody else did”. The same guy who ran against Pringle for Mayor just because “nobody else did”. Argument for argument’s sake is a lousy reason to spend a quarter million dollars when we need cops. Harry did the right thing, get off his back. I am now going to swap the SOAR sign that has been gracing my lawn with a Harry Sidhu sign. Annie, if you’re reading this (and we know you’re reading this) get me a lawn sign. And a few spares for my neighbors.

I agree with previous posters. Jubal is a joke who is angry at Harry Sidhu for placing taxpayers interests before SunCal and Jubal's.

Harry says "what price democracy?" then flip-flops and says $250K is too much to pay! That Mouse must have really roared.

To all of you who completely miss the point of this post:

"Mislead by Jubal": Oh please. As if it is any secret I was -- past tense -- a SunCal consultant. I "admitted" it ad nauseum in every post I wrote on the subject.

Your feeble red herring earns you a score of 1 out of 10.

Do you guys blame SunCal for bad weather and acne, too?

SunCal has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that last week Harry Sidhu made an ironclad committment to oppose adopting SOAR as an ordinance -- and then a week later executed a complete reversal based on a justification he had rejected a week earlier.

Regardless or whether one is for or against SOAR or ballot box zoning -- that is a flip-flop. Just because you SOAR folks like where Harry flopped to doesn't change the fact that Harry Sidhu broke his promise.

So keep re-hashing the same old pro-SOAR talking points. They are irrelevant to the topic -- Harry's flip-flip -- and are simply evidence that the lot of you aren't honest enough to recognize the obvious: Harry promised to do one thing and a week later did exactly the oppose.

she said... he said... it's all out of the contest. What is relevant to the topic is that Matt Jubal is full of ... ideas on how to get back at Sidhu.

Actually Sidhu did the right decision and I applaud him for that. If I lived in Anaheim I would be proud to have him as my city council representative.

Who is Annie and where do I get a loan sign in support for Sidhu?

Jubal, better check that LA Times quote again. Here's what's actually in the LA Times that was linked in your other post, and it's Bob Hernandez who said that "what price democracy line" not Sidhu.

Hernandez said saving $250,000 isn't enough of a reason to forgo an election.

"At what price democracy?" he asked. "I thought the whole idea of this was to let the people decide."

That's a quote from Hernandez not Sidhu.

I agree with previous posters. Jubal is a joke who is angry at Harry Sidhu for placing taxpayers interests before SunCal and Jubal's.

Sigh. What is a joke is your reasoning. or rather, excuse making.

The Platinum Pointe project is dead. I am no longer a SunCal consultant. Harry's vote has absolutely no impact on "my interests."

I'm not disappointed in Harry because he voted to put the SOAR ordinance on the ballot. So did Curt Pringle, and I have great respect for Curt and would happily support him for whatever office he may run for in the future.

I'm upset with Harry because he voted to adopt the SOAR initiative after making an adamant argument last week why he,on principle, would not do precisely what he did a week later.

Curt has been perfectly consistent in his opposition to the SunCal project and his support for SOAR from the very beginning. I disagree with him him on this issue, but I respect him as a good conservative Mayor.

Harry, on the other hand, has flipped-flopped on this issue. First he was for the SunCal project. Then he was against the SunCal project. First he's adamantly against taking the SOAR initiative off the ballot and dismisses the cost argument. A week later, votes to take the SOAR initiative off the ballot, citing the cost argument.

This is not about the merits of SOAR. This is about Harry Sidhu's political character.

Black Belt/To Jubal And Others:

I'll assume you are new to this blog and are unfamiliar with the very simple, easy to follow and understand rules that have governed the OC Blog comments section for nearly 4 years:

1) No personal gossip or personal attacks or name calling

2) No profanity or obscenity

If a person is unable to engage in argument or debate without employing the above, then they belong in kindergarten -- not on this blog.

I am going to edit your comment accordingly to excise the rule-violating portions -- which may not leave much. This is your first and last warning. The next violation results in banning

The LAT is asking me to login to view the article and it's not accepting my login/password, so I'll have to take your word for it -- and if so, I apologize for the error and will correct it.

Even so, it doesn't diminish Harry's flip-flop on iota. The reversal of his stated position (see the Around Disney Blog post) from last week is more than damning enough.

Just listened to the council vote on this at the city website. Sidhu gave the reasons for his yes vote and why he voted the way he did. So did Pringle. So did Kring. It's all there. Time to call for a time out on this.

Matt, people make bad decisions all the time. Harry at least had the cajones to rectify his. When are you going to rectify yours?

Harry at least had the cajones to rectify his.

Stan, I'm more interested in you displaying enough brains to deal with the point of this post.

When are you going to rectify yours?

Because I have nothing to rectify. It's an advantage of being right.

Yep, you were right on about Suncal and about how the Frank Family property at Haster & Katella would not be developed for 50 years or was it 25 years? Being right is not always plausible. It would be RIGHT to provide housing for everyone who needs housing, but the reality of being right is that society can not afford to provide housing for everyone. I would like to think we could, but that will most likely not happen. Being RIGHT is making sure that every American has access to health care, but again, we are off spending billions of dollars on a war in Iraq so that may not happen in our lifetimes.

However, getting back to the subject of the post, I think Harry did the right thing. Even Bush flip flops as do all politicians. Since when is being able to change your mind a bad thing. So what if he changed his mind? The voters of Anaheim now control the destiny of the resort area and why is that a bad thing?

I'm not real hot on the idea of housing in the resort area. But what bothers me more is the council's action. Kring, Pringle and Sidhu are saying they're can't be trusted to make zoning decisions in the resort district because it is too important.

If they can't be trusted on big matters, how are we supposed to trust them on small matters? Why elect them if they're are just going to kick the big issues back to the voters?

Councilmembers abdicating their responsibilities bothers me more than some condos near Disneyland.

Colonist,

A majority block of Council disregarding the will of the people to promote a private development that was detrimental to every neighborhood in the city bothers me more than the condos that were in question. Yes, we trust our elected officials to make those decisions, but recognizing that those individuals are human, and therefore flawed, we also have a Referendum and Initiative process, allowing the people to take back a portion of that authority if it is being misused. We did that for one portion of the City. 2% of our land. That means Council is still free to tinker with the other 98%, and after seeing the ramblings of Hernandez Tuesday night, I say may God help those of us in the other 98%.

Whoops, sorry, I'm exhausted. I meant we froze 2.2 miles, 5% of the land, and may God help those of us who live in the other 95%.
That's better. Ever the stickler.

...and by the way, why do I not see anyone ragging on Lucille Kring for "flip flopping?" Why only Harry, just before an election? And how many of these bloggers are on his opponent's payroll? It would be those political operatives that would make the most stink of this, I personally do not know any Anaheim residents that mind saving $250k to not hold an uncontested election. There might be some, but I suspect that is not who we are seeing here today.

Jubal, you really don't like Harry, do you?

RP:

My post has nothing to do with my personal feelings about Harry. I think Harry is a nice guy, actually.

It's the flip-flopping I don't like.

Going back to old posts over the years (check out your archive) you've spilled quite a bit of ink going after Harry's lack of character for one thing or another - even before the Great SunCal Fiasco. You seem to be treating Harry tougher than some others I could mention.

It's your blog and you can certainly go after whomever you choose. With Harry it does indeed (at least to me)appear personal.

You seem to be treating Harry tougher than some others I could mention.

Are those others running for state Senate?

With Harry it does indeed (at least to me)appear personal.

It's not. You can believe me or not. I can't help how it appears to you.

Colony Rabble:
To say that Hernandez was rambling is being too kind. I don't think he made one coherent statement the whole night. Galloway and her minions made no sense either. They don't seem to realize that now the city can concentrate on finding solutions to the housing problem, but as long as people continue to make a full time job out of an entry level position, they will never be able afford housing in orange county even at what is considered affordable by Anaheim's definition.

"Are those others running for state Senate?"

No, but one of them was in charge of the Sheriff's Department for nine years. You'll allow me a little incredulity when you decide to cherrypick the "character" issue. Sorry.

I'm redperegrine and I approved that last message.

So let me get this straight, our legislature has voted to essentially strip itself of its power to elect a U.S. Senator? I'm sorry, but the voters of this state simply don't have the time or the energy to pile through mounds and mounds of personal information, not to mention the complex issues at stake, necessary to decide who will represent them for six years. SIX YEARS FOLKS! I'm sorry but the people of this state are just too busy tending to their farms, managing their general stores and buggying their children to and from school (six miles, uphill, both ways, often in the snow) to have what it takes to make this important a decision. And what's with Assemblyman Johnston? Just last week he was leaning against ratification of the 17th Amendment. I heard from 'ol Henry down at the saloon that he caved into pressure from his constituents who telegraphed hundreds of messages into town hall encouraging him to vote in favor of this constitutional amendment. These are the very people who will benefit from the direct election of a U.S. Senator!!!! I heard that as early as 1914 every Tom, Dick and Harry (and if those suffrage people get their way, maybe even Mary) will be able to vote for a United States Senator. Isn't this what we elected our state legislators to do?!?!?! And you thought the Titanic sinking last year was a disaster.

My husband wants 1913 Blogger to come over for dinner.

RP:

I thought you, of all people, would at least address the meat of the matter instead of resorting to the "you weren't tough on Carona" red herring.

1913 Blogger:

Very clever.

Also, completely non-germane.

No, 1913 was not germane, but it was a nice reality break. I much prefer the last turn of the century to this one. So Matt, why are you not hounding Lucille? Harry changed the timing of something that he already supported, not a huge leap. Lucille did a complete about-face and you say nothing? Do you call all elected officials on the carpet for flip flopping or only those who are running for another office? And if your critique does not apply to those already in office, then will Lucille's change of heart become a point of interest to you when she chases after Curt's seat? Or as a professional courtesy do you not attack the other members of SunCal's happy family, only those politicians who opposed your (previous) employer?

Black Belt:

The comment section rules are long-standing and easy to abide by. It doesn't matter who the personal attacks are directed at: it's still against the rules. You were warned, and you did it again anyway, so you aren't welcome here any longer.

While I do not know what Black Belt posted, thank you Matt for keeping this a clean place to exchange views, even when they are opposing ones. Have a good day.
CW

Ditto

Cynthia

Regarding your point about Lucille.

The two main factors in my criticism of Harry are:

1) He is running to be a state Senator - and my state Senator, to boot.

2) The starkness of his flip-flop.

Four of the five councilmembers were consistent in how they voted on the SunCal issue throughout the life of the issue, despite the enormous pressures being put on them.

Except for Harry.

He was for the project, then against the project. For keeping SOAR on the ballot, then against keeping SOAR on the ballot.

Once the SunCal project had effectively died, Lucille moved to put it behind her.

Lucille didn't issue an adamant, emphatic, strong-as-steel statement last week laying out why she absolutely would not vote to "disenfranchise" Anaheim voters by taking SOAR off the ballot.

It was Harry who did so.

Harry has displayed a pattern of having difficulty standing up to pressure.

The most important vote a GOP state legislator casts is on the state budget. The requirement that a budget be approved by a 2/3 vote is the only thing that give the Senate and Assembly GOP caucuses leverage in the negotiations.

Given the size of the deficit, the Democrats (and possibly even Schwarzenegger) will exert enormous pressures on GOP legislators to support some gimmicky budget containing tax increases. They will target GOP legislators they think are vulnerable to pressure.

If Harry can issue a black-and-white, absolutely-no-wiggle-room statement about how he'll vote, and then a week later do exactly the opposite -- it doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in me that he can hold up under the even greater pressures of Sacramento.

While SOAR supporters no doubt favor the consequence of Harry's flip-flop, I sincerely doubt it makes them view Harry as someone whose assurances can be relied upon.

And thanks for the compliment. I try keep this unruly comments section as clean and civil as possible.

I love how those of you who assail Jubal's objectivity barely veil your own love (or is it lust?) for Councilman Flip-Flopper. Any flip like the one Sidhu perpetrated in this case is huge news and DOES call into question anyone's ability to trust anything he says.

I don't even know Jubal personally, but you guys need to calm down and quit making every statement you make a personal attack on him or anyone who might actually disagree with Sidhu. Harry isn't perfect and your blind loyalty to him can only serve to be a detriment to him and his cause if he thinks (based on your "witness") everyone loves and agrees with him, when that simply isn't the case.