Last night, the City of Orange voted unanimously to approve a Resolution opposing High Speed Rail’s push to take property in their City by eminent domain, for an underfunded transportation project.
Within 20 minutes the California High Speed Rail Authority released this statement, accusing Orange elected officials of opposing something good for the people of their community; indeed the HSR is being promoted as the salvation of the entire State of California. What absolute horse-feathers! The Orange City Council cites quite specifically in their Resolution the very arguments that communities up and down the State are citing in their opposition to this boondoggle.
The Resolution calls out the State for:
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Using eminent domain powers to cut through neighborhoods and business centers
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A viable finance plan to fund construction does not currently exist, and current plans lay out an unrealistic scenario.
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The State Auditor Report says, “The program risks significant delays without more well developed plans for obtaining or replacing federal funds.”
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The CHSRA ridership and revenue scenario for the CHSR has been inflated in order to continue to move this project forward with unachievable goals.
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Increasing fiscal costs to complete the project.
Rather than using State resources to pummel a City government for standing up for their own people, I would prefer to see the CHSRA show us where Orange is inaccurate in their assessment of the situation. We will be waiting for that statement for a very long time, because the CHSRA no longer has a leg to stand on in this argument. They continue shoving blindly forward on an underfunded project whose benefits have been exaggerated, and kudos to the City of Orange for taking a stand. This Resolution was not only appropriate, it is a model that could be lifted word for word and used by other communities up and down the State. I envy the people of Orange their bold leadership, and congratulate those at City Hall who were behind this Resolution, written so carefully that even proponents of the project can find no reason to deny their yes votes to protect the people of Orange. Good work.
Mid-day update: The OCRegister did a more detailed story on this Resolution, with the information that Councilman Jon Dimitru was the primary voice behind this vote. Jon has also recently announced he is running for the Mayor's seat this year.
Comments
I do not even think for a
I do not even think for a second that a rail car can be any more proficient than someone js driving a car around. no one wants to wait in lines it is as simple as that.
I would like to know how
I would like to know how after only a short 20 min of a voting people where already being accused of such actions?
The alternative is even more expensive
"The project costs are now estimated at $45 - $80 billion for project completion"
Please keep in mind that the alternative, expanding freeways and airports to move the same number of people, is estimated to cost $80-150 billion.
check for yourself
Derek, you assume this will actually move the people that airports and roads would. Check the ridership studies for yourself, and see how screwball their projections are! According to the CHSRA, they have planned for as many boardings in Gilroy as Los Angeles! The numbers are terrible. If this thing did what it was supposed to do I would not oppose it, I would even be willing to subsidize a transportation project that worked, (although AB3034 forbids subsidy in this case) but we are spending buckets of money to decimate communities only to not be able to move people at top speeds because of badly planned routes. Don't take my word for it, do your homework and check it out. Please.
Well of course ...
"According to the CHSRA, they have planned for as many boardings in Gilroy as Los Angeles!"
Well of course Cynthia - we all need to make that weekly run for our fresh garlic!
I checked for myself and now it's your turn.
Wrong. The report shows 4,700 boardings at Gilroy and 14,100 boardings at Los Angeles Union Station. (2009 Report to the Legislature, page 72, Table D, Daily Station Boardings, Initial Phase 2035, Fares 83% of Air.)
The reason Gilroy is expecting even that many boardings is not because Gilroy is a big city (which it isn't), but because it's a transfer point for Monterey and Santa Cruz.
Any more rightwing BS that
Any more rightwing BS that you and the rest of you Neocon "Real Americans" care to lie about as truth?? Starting with the morons statment that its running to SanDiego thru Orange..it is not ..Hows that not a lie?? his100 billion dollar guess..and on and on..if anything Stupid Orange would stand to make far more in revenue in higher paying jobs and purchaes than those wharehouses that employee ..welll you what types dont you dear REDS ..
Lies, lies and damn lies
Another neocon citing lies and half truths and then saying "Aha, they didn't respond to my lies so my lies must be true!" It's like me asking Cynthia "When did you stop having sex for money?" and then using her denials as proof that the accusation is true.
which lies would those be?
So which part of the Resolution is based on lies? And i want you to cite sources, please.
Using eminent domain powers to cut through neighborhoods and business centers
A viable finance plan to fund construction does not currently exist, and current plans lay out an unrealistic scenario.
The State Auditor Report says, “The program risks significant delays without more well developed plans for obtaining or replacing federal funds.”
The CHSRA ridership and revenue scenario for the CHSR has been inflated in order to continue to move this project forward with unachievable goals.
Increasing fiscal costs to complete the project.
Dumitru is an idiot
In the OC Register article referred to at the end of this post, Dumitru is quoted as saying, "They want to extend to San Diego, and the corridor they want to use would go through Old Towne,"
The project is not going to run through Old Town. Whether or not you support high speed rail, you have to agree the facts clearly show it's going to stop in Anaheim. Dumitru is just trying to make political waves. What a moron.
I actually said they want to
I actually said they want to extend the CHSR to San Diego and it will go to the Inland and then south. I am concerned with the a different leg of train routes that does in fact go from Anaheim (ARTIC) to the Irvine Transportation Center and will affect the Old Towne Orange area. Just for point of clarification, the CHSRA has numerous items on its website stating this, also their "ridership" study also uses LA to Irvine in its projections.
That's not what was posted in
That's not what was posted in the paper you need to tell them to do a retraction... you clearly stated it was going to San Diego through the city of Orange. At this point in time there is no plans to continue a high-speed rail line to Irvine.. it's not even in Phase 2 and of course they use the city of Irvine in the studies do not think people will not take the Metrolink to Anaheim for a high-speed train?
it keeps going
You do know that it stops in Anaheim only for the initial phase right? It eventually goes on to San Diego.
YES ITS going to
YES ITS going to Sandiego....NOT THRU ORANGE...READ
The CHSRA does want to extend
The CHSRA does want to extend route to San Diego. However, it goes from Anaheim to the Inland Empire then south and I have said that from the beginning.
What I was speaking to is the line that goes from the future A.R.T.I.C. Station in Anaheim to the Irvine Transportation Center (currently served by Metro Link).
Overall, the CHSR project is extremely flawed and is more debt for generations to endure. The CHSR will not be able to fund itself and will always remain with taxpayer subsidies much like amtrack
Amtrak
Amtrak is not a bad comparison. Specifically, the high speed Acela Express, which makes an operating profit. If it can and every other high speed rail line around the world can make a profit, then why would California's be any different?
Your opinion that the
Your opinion that the high-speed rail project is flawed is totally personal and ideologically based... that is unprofessional city councilman.. the fact that the city of Orange longingly looks across the river at the Big A , Honda Center, Disneyland and now the future high-speed rail station and the platinum triangle is no reason for petty games and stall tactic posturing. By the way it's spelled AMTRAK and the system will be nothing like it
by the way..
By the way, if the Resolution was packed with lies, why did it pass 5-0? Mayor Cavecche is a smart woman, and well-informed. During her service with OCTA she has been a huge advocate of HSR, and if anyone was in a position to point out misinformation in the Resolution, it would be Carolyn. So why didn't she? I did not make it to the meeting, so I do not know if she objected, but it seems as though if the Resolution was factually incorrect the vote would have been 4-1.
AAA maby RED Neck
AAA maby RED Neck REPUBS...????? DUUUH
Correction
Cynthia,
Enjoy reading your posts, but I know on this issue you can't be moved. At the Orange meeting Cavecche did mention several issues with the wording of the resolution she felt were misleading but supported Dumitru on the principle of the issue. She has never been considered a "huge"supporter of CHSR, ask any staffer at OCTA. In fact she lead the charge to make Anaheim the terminus to keep it out of Orange. She stated that her concern was with the economics of the State bonding at this point. She does completely support ARTIC for a number of reasons not related to High Speed Rail. She is pretty aligned with Pringle on just about everything, so this one had to be a tough vote for her.
I can be moved if we build it right!
Would you believe that I could conceivably be moved on this issue? I WANT high speed rail. HSR is a combination of 2 of my great loves, the romance of rail and the intensity of speed. I would genuinely fight to have HSR built in CA in my lifetime. If this could be built right, I would get behind it so fast it would make your head spin. Unbelievably, even the most staunch HSR opponents have also said the same thing. Even those who live along the line would be willing to "take one for the team", and most voted to approve the bond. We simply do not want to make these sacrifices for a project that does not fit what was voted for by the people of this State in 2008. Right now the system does not fit Prop1A. Period.
My objection is not to HSR, it is to the way this proposed implementation of the project is being planned and executed. In no way does this system fit AB3034, which was the basis of Prop1A approved by voters. As currently planned, the system does not even meet the definition of "high speed rail" for Federal funding in many areas, because its operation in dense population centers slows it to a speed that barely beats conventional rail systems. So as currently designed the system is highly unlikely to go from Anaheim to San Francisco in under 3 hours. It does not produce the profit that is demanded by AB3034, and here is the kicker that will cost me my Republican Secret Decoder Ring, I would actually vote to subsidize the stupid thing, as will be needed, but we must go back to the drawing board and admit that subsidy is needed to make it work. If the people of CA know going into it that we must subsidize this, just as we subsidize roads, I get it, then we will be within the law. But to continue deluding ourselves into believing it can run without subsidy, or that we can somehow get around the law that forbids subsidy, is disingenuous. Currently we are forbidden to allow taxpayers to underwrite it, and as designed it is not going to produce the profit margins expected and demanded in AB3034 Prop1A.
Build it right and not only can I be moved, i will buy the first ticket! I am not the hardheaded NIMBY you see me as. Try to understand my motivation. If we build it wrong in CA, it will be the death of HSR for the nation, and I want to see the project explode all over the country into an integrated nationwide network. Someday I want to take HSR to see Little Sam Nocella's Inauguration in Washington, and that is not going to happen if we screw it up in CA.
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